Apple Music Anyone know definitively why there’s no Apple Music integration?

[Drmevo]

I know it’s been discussed but it’s really been bugging me lately. I want a WiiM Ultra but the only music service my family subscribes to is Apple Music and that isn’t going to change anytime soon. My WiiM Mini has been a faithful AirPlay2 receiver but while AirPlay is a nice feature, it has plenty of drawbacks.

Some people say that there’s an Apple Music API that vendors like WiiM just need to code for (I know there is one, but is it somehow lacking in function or compatibility for companies like WiiM?). Some people say that Apple does not let other hardware vendors use their service unless there is a lucrative deal for Apple (e.g. Sonos). I know there is an AM app on some gaming consoles, TV’s, etc., but no music streamers besides Sonos and Android-based streamers.

Does anyone know definitively where the truth lies? What is the big hold up anyways? I’ve voted here in favor of Apple Music integration in polls and I’ve submitted feedback to Apple. I just want to play AM at least losslessly via WiiM without relying on yet another device like a Mac or AppleTV. I know tons of others are in the same boat. I would guess Apple are the ones making it difficult but why? Apple TV app for video streaming is everywhere, why not Music?

 

[Burnside]

You’d need to ask WiiM, but I’m sure the truth lies in amongst what you’ve already said, although I don’t believe there is a publicly available API that anyone can use otherwise we’d have seen Apple Music implementations on the likes of LMS, and I don’t the analogy with Apple TV is accurate as there are no third party implementations of that that I’m aware of.

Basically, I think it boils down to Apple’s long held walled garden approach to the market

 

[telecastermds`]

Even if Apple offered an API, I'm sure the licensing costs would be prohibitive.

 

[Drmevo]

I don’t the analogy with Apple TV is accurate as there are no third party implementations of that that I’m aware of.

I have the Apple TV app on a really cheap Vizio TV as well as a few Amazon Fire Sticks. I’m fairly certain it’s available just about anywhere you can download Netflix, Max, etc., as Apple is competing with those services. So that’s kinda my point, if it’s possible with video why not audio?

Even if Apple offered an API, I'm sure the licensing costs would be prohibitive.

Maybe - that’s often suggested as being the case, but it makes no sense to me. If AirPlay was not prohibitively expensive to offer, why AM? And why would Apple not want to encourage people to subscribe to its service?

I wish that either Apple or WiiM would be straightforward about this.

 

[castalla]

I know it’s been discussed but it’s really been bugging me lately. I want a WiiM Ultra but the only music service my family subscribes to is Apple Music and that isn’t going to change anytime soon. My WiiM Mini has been a faithful AirPlay2 receiver but while AirPlay is a nice feature, it has plenty of drawbacks.

Some people say that there’s an Apple Music API that vendors like WiiM just need to code for (I know there is one, but is it somehow lacking in function or compatibility for companies like WiiM?). Some people say that Apple does not let other hardware vendors use their service unless there is a lucrative deal for Apple (e.g. Sonos). I know there is an AM app on some gaming consoles, TV’s, etc., but no music streamers besides Sonos and Android-based streamers.

Does anyone know definitively where the truth lies? What is the big hold up anyways? I’ve voted here in favor of Apple Music integration in polls and I’ve submitted feedback to Apple. I just want to play AM at least losslessly via WiiM without relying on yet another device like a Mac or AppleTV. I know tons of others are in the same boat. I would guess Apple are the ones making it difficult but why? Apple TV app for video streaming is everywhere, why not Music?

The point is that Apple want you to shell out for another Apple device - it's about the money, baby

 

[telecastermds`]

I have the Apple TV app on a really cheap Vizio TV as well as a few Amazon Fire Sticks. I’m fairly certain it’s available just about anywhere you can download Netflix, Max, etc., as Apple is competing with those services. So that’s kinda my point, if it’s possible with video why not audio?

Maybe - that’s often suggested as being the case, but it makes no sense to me. If AirPlay was not prohibitively expensive to offer, why AM? And why would Apple not want to encourage people to subscribe to its service?

I wish that either Apple or WiiM would be straightforward about this.

The Apple Music App on Roku does not offer lossless streaming, only MP4 AAC 256k. The same with the Android Apple music app, you can only Chromecast 256k AAC to a WiiM device. No lossless ALAC. That makes it no better than Spotify's 320K Ogg Vorbis.

 

[Burnside]

I have the Apple TV app on a really cheap Vizio TV as well as a few Amazon Fire Sticks. I’m fairly certain it’s available just about anywhere you can download Netflix, Max, etc., as Apple is competing with those services. So that’s kinda my point, if it’s possible with video why not audio?

Again, that’s one for Apple. While they do have an Apple TV app for video, they don’t produce an Apple Music app for fire tvs. Maybe they don’t see that as a viable option, or maybe Amazon don’t allow it.

I wish that either Apple or WiiM would be straightforward about this.

Given that I’d say WiiM would love to be able to support Apple Music, I guess again it’s down to Apple as to why they won’t facilitate that.

 

[Drmevo]

The point is that Apple want you to shell out for another Apple device - it's about the money, baby

It’s the most simple answer and I appreciate the response, but again, it doesn’t really hold water - Apple TV is available on many streaming devices, not just Apple devices.

The Apple Music App on Roku does not offer lossless streaming, only MP4 AAC 256k. The same with the Android Apple music app, you can only Chromecast 256k AAC to a WiiM device. No lossless ALAC. That makes it no better than Spotify's 320K Ogg Vorbis.

That’s interesting on the Roku app, thanks. Are you saying the hardware streamers running Android (Fiio, Eversolo) don’t offer lossless Apple Music?

Given that I’d say WiiM would love to be able to support Apple Music, I guess again it’s down to Apple as to why they won’t facilitate that.

I’m sure WiiM would, and I don’t mean to direct my angst towards them - I would also guess Apple are the ones standing in the way of making this possible/easy. I am just wondering why.

For example, if it would drive up the cost of each WiiM device by $15, then I would try to petition a bunch of Apple Music users to say, hey, we’ll buy fully into the WiiM ecosystem if it’s possible to make this available. Or, make a WiiM Ultra Apple Music Edition that’s $50 more expensive. AM IS, I believe, the largest subscriber base after Spotify - I have to think there is or would be a lot of demand.

 

[Burnside]

Are you saying the hardware streamers running Android (Fiio, Eversolo) don’t offer lossless Apple Music?

I believe they do because they run the standard Android Apple Music app but they have a customised version of Android’s audio subsystem to allow them to offer lossless, so really Apple have done nothing to facilitate this. I have also seen unsubstantiated claims that Apple had considered crippling their app if they discovered it was running on a modified version of Android for which they don’t provide support, but fortunately for Eversolo and FiiO that doesn’t appear to have happened yet.

 

[slartibartfast]

It’s the most simple answer and I appreciate the response, but again, it doesn’t really hold water - Apple TV is available on many streaming devices, not just Apple devices.

Apple TV is a subscription service, Apple still make money out of it.

 

[Drmevo]

Apple TV is a subscription service, Apple still make money out of it.

Um, Apple Music is a subscription service, too. Actually, Apple Music is MORE expensive per month than Apple TV+ (forgot the "+" is included in the subscription service name).

 

[RVG1895]

Has anyone a confirmation that the mentioned Eversolo or FiiO devices really go beyond 48 kHz? Not that this matters for me, but could be interesting anyway.

 

[Burnside]

Has anyone a confirmation that the mentioned Eversolo or FiiO devices really go beyond 48 kHz? Not that this matters for me, but could be interesting anyway.

See here for example

 

[slartibartfast]

Um, Apple Music is a subscription service, too. Actually, Apple Music is MORE expensive per month than Apple TV+ (forgot the "+" is included in the subscription service name).

Yup, I was thinking of Airplay rather than Apple Music

 

[Drmevo]

I have also seen unsubstantiated claims that Apple had considered crippling their app if they discovered it was running on a modified version of Android for which they don’t provide support, but fortunately for Eversolo and FiiO that doesn’t appear to have happened yet.

I had heard this as well - additionally, that the Android versions are very out-of-date and in fact may not receive security updates any longer. One reason such streamers are non-starters for me.

 

[RVG1895]

Must say that I like Apple Music and searched a good while for a way to bring it to the stereo. Kind of married with the Apple devices for long. Have an Android phone for fun beside, as soon as it comes to reliability Apple for me won every contest.
We use another iPad Air for bringing Apple Music to the stereo. iPad with USB-C to a dongle DAC, from there using a 3,5 mm to RCA adapter to the stereo. A simple stand for the iPad and you have a touch screen. Not really elegant, but it works without any issue.

 

[castalla]

It’s the most simple answer and I appreciate the response, but again, it doesn’t really hold water - Apple TV is available on many streaming devices, not just Apple devices.



That’s interesting on the Roku app, thanks. Are you saying the hardware streamers running Android (Fiio, Eversolo) don’t offer lossless Apple Music?


I’m sure WiiM would, and I don’t mean to direct my angst towards them - I would also guess Apple are the ones standing in the way of making this possible/easy. I am just wondering why.

For example, if it would drive up the cost of each WiiM device by $15, then I would try to petition a bunch of Apple Music users to say, hey, we’ll buy fully into the WiiM ecosystem if it’s possible to make this available. Or, make a WiiM Ultra Apple Music Edition that’s $50 more expensive. AM IS, I believe, the largest subscriber base after Spotify - I have to think there is or would be a lot of demand.

The video and audio markets are very different. Apple tv is likely to have a bigger market than the audio one. They can attract more subscribers with original content. The audio streamers are essentially identical in content and a unique selling point is difficult to push or attract subscribers. Spotify=Qobuz=Tidal, whereas the video streamers are all different.

 

[Drmevo]

Must say that I like Apple Music and searched a good while for a way to bring it to the stereo. Kind of married with the Apple devices for long. Have an Android phone for fun beside, as soon as it comes to reliability Apple for me won every contest.
We use another iPad Air for bringing Apple Music to the stereo. iPad with USB-C to a dongle DAC, from there using a 3,5 mm to RCA adapter to the stereo. A simple stand for the iPad and you have a touch screen. Not really elegant, but it works without any issue.

Yeah, besides my WiiM Mini used with optical In on my preamp's DAC, I've recently been experimenting with USB from my iPhone 15 to the same DAC. I sit about 6-7' away so it's workable but not ideal.

The video and audio markets are very different. Apple tv is likely to have a bigger market than the audio one. They can attract more subscribers with original content. The audio streamers are essentially identical in content and a unique selling point is difficult to push or attract subscribers. Spotify=Qobuz=Tidal, whereas the video streamers are all different.

Agreed on those points, but it's still a paid service offered by Apple where they are making it more difficult to integrate than the competition. It's not a free bonus service they throw in or something. Even listening to Lossless, there are very few wireless control options, let alone Hi-Res. AppleTV (as a music streamer) is really the only thing that comes close but there is no way to connect it directly to most DACs, having instead to rely on an extractor which may or may not pass the signal perfectly.