Better than Airplay

[D700]

If you have given up on Airplay with Wiim (curse you Apple) or your device doesn't have it, here's best option I've found:

For those seeking:

• Wiim/Apple Music Ecosystem integration
• Apple Music navigation: view, select, play, pause from any Mac, iPhone, iPad, Watch
• Lossless music up to 24/48
• Automatic bit rate switching: 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48

Hardware:

• Apple 4K TV - Generation 3 (A2737, A2843)
• Monoprice Blackbird HDMI Extractor - Optical Out to Wiim Device
• Note: I don't have Wiim Ultra or Amp Pro but I'd assume you can skip the extractor since they have HDMI eArc input.

Notes:

• You can run ATV without a display but you'll need one for initial setup.
• To play music: Use "Control Center - Apple Music" remote option to select streams, stations, library music: play, pause music
• Control Center Remote works from all Apple Devices including Apple Watch.
• Unintuitive Apple Feature:
  • When you drag down Control Center on iOS, there's a grayed out side panel that shows Apple Music icon.
  • Select Apple Music icon, it presents list of Airplay devices then scroll down to bottom to see "other devices"
  • Select your ATV from Other Devices and you'll be controlling Apple Music natively on the ATV, not over airplay. (the magic sauce)
• On ATV you'll need to:
  • Enable "Settings> Users & Accounts> Home Sharing" which requires pairing to Apple Music. Repeat for other Apple devices you wish to use to control ATV.
  • Set "Settings -> Apps -> Music -> Audio Quality -> Lossless Audio
  • Set the "Settings->General->Sleep After" setting far enough out that it doesn't go to sleep while you are futzing around in Apple Music or pause it for a phone call.

Advantages of the ATV4K (Gen 3) versus Airplay:

• This provides reliable, automatic bit rate switching of uncompressed lossless 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48. This feature was apparently added last year and only works on gen 3 versions of ATV. (like other iOS devices). Even Mac OS X Sequia does not do automatic bit rate switching.
• No compression like with Airplay
• I've found bump to lossless 24bit audio is the differentiator, much more so than the difference between 48/96/192 sample rates. Do I want high Rez?...of course! ... but with 24/48, lack of 96/192 isn't a deal breaker any longer, it sounds fantastic.

Would someone mind confirming ATV works like this directly with Wiim Ultra/Amp Pro without needing to extract the audio first?

I could see moving to ATV/Amp Pro to get native Apple Music control and super simple/great sound quality setup.

All that said, dang it Apple, why make us jump through hoops, just give us 24/192 Airplay option and call it a day.

Good luck!

 

[d6jg]

If you have given up on Airplay with Wiim (curse you Apple) or your device doesn't have it, here's best option I've found:

For those seeking:

• Wiim/Apple Music Ecosystem integration
• Apple Music navigation: view, select, play, pause from any Mac, iPhone, iPad, Watch
• Lossless music up to 24/48
• Automatic bit rate switching: 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48

Hardware:

• Apple 4K TV - Generation 3 (A2737, A2843)
• Monoprice Blackbird HDMI Extractor - Optical Out to Wiim Device
• Note: I don't have Wiim Ultra or Amp Pro but I'd assume you can skip the extractor since they have HDMI eArc input.

Notes:

• You can run ATV without a display but you'll need one for initial setup.
• To play music: Use "Control Center - Apple Music" remote option to select streams, stations, library music: play, pause music
• Control Center Remote works from all Apple Devices including Apple Watch.
• Unintuitive Apple Feature:
  • When you drag down Control Center on iOS, there's a grayed out side panel that shows Apple Music icon.
  • Select Apple Music icon, it presents list of Airplay devices then scroll down to bottom to see "other devices"
  • Select your ATV from Other Devices and you'll be controlling Apple Music natively on the ATV, not over airplay. (the magic sauce)
• On ATV you'll need to:
  • Enable "Settings> Users & Accounts> Home Sharing" which requires pairing to Apple Music. Repeat for other Apple devices you wish to use to control ATV.
  • Set "Settings -> Apps -> Music -> Audio Quality -> Lossless Audio
  • Set the "Settings->General->Sleep After" setting far enough out that it doesn't go to sleep while you are futzing around in Apple Music or pause it for a phone call.

Advantages of the ATV4K (Gen 3) versus Airplay:

• This provides reliable, automatic bit rate switching of uncompressed lossless 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48. This feature was apparently added last year and only works on gen 3 versions of ATV. (like other iOS devices). Even Mac OS X Sequia does not do automatic bit rate switching.
• No compression like with Airplay
• I've found bump to lossless 24bit audio is the differentiator, much more so than the difference between 48/96/192 sample rates. Do I want high Rez?...of course! ... but with 24/48, lack of 96/192 isn't a deal breaker any longer, it sounds fantastic.

Would someone mind confirming ATV works like this directly with Wiim Ultra/Amp Pro without needing to extract the audio first?

I could see moving to ATV/Amp Pro to get native Apple Music control and super simple/great sound quality setup.

All that said, dang it Apple, why make us jump through hoops, just give us 24/192 Airplay option and call it a day.

Good luck!

The HDMI on Ultra is ARC - it won’t work directly from a device’s HDMI out.

 

[D700]

The HDMI on Ultra is ARC - it won’t work directly from a device’s HDMI out.

Have you tried it?

Apple enabled bidirectional HDMI ARC support on ATV last year so wonder if that restriction applies.

 

[d6jg]

Have you tried it?

Apple enabled bidirectional HDMI ARC support on ATV last year so wonder if that restriction applies.

Perhaps it will work then.

 

[adias]

If you have given up on Airplay with Wiim (curse you Apple) or your device doesn't have it, here's best option I've found:

For those seeking:

• Wiim/Apple Music Ecosystem integration
• Apple Music navigation: view, select, play, pause from any Mac, iPhone, iPad, Watch
• Lossless music up to 24/48
• Automatic bit rate switching: 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48

Hardware:

• Apple 4K TV - Generation 3 (A2737, A2843)
• Monoprice Blackbird HDMI Extractor - Optical Out to Wiim Device
• Note: I don't have Wiim Ultra or Amp Pro but I'd assume you can skip the extractor since they have HDMI eArc input.

Notes:

• You can run ATV without a display but you'll need one for initial setup.
• To play music: Use "Control Center - Apple Music" remote option to select streams, stations, library music: play, pause music
• Control Center Remote works from all Apple Devices including Apple Watch.
• Unintuitive Apple Feature:
  • When you drag down Control Center on iOS, there's a grayed out side panel that shows Apple Music icon.
  • Select Apple Music icon, it presents list of Airplay devices then scroll down to bottom to see "other devices"
  • Select your ATV from Other Devices and you'll be controlling Apple Music natively on the ATV, not over airplay. (the magic sauce)
• On ATV you'll need to:
  • Enable "Settings> Users & Accounts> Home Sharing" which requires pairing to Apple Music. Repeat for other Apple devices you wish to use to control ATV.
  • Set "Settings -> Apps -> Music -> Audio Quality -> Lossless Audio
  • Set the "Settings->General->Sleep After" setting far enough out that it doesn't go to sleep while you are futzing around in Apple Music or pause it for a phone call.

Advantages of the ATV4K (Gen 3) versus Airplay:

• This provides reliable, automatic bit rate switching of uncompressed lossless 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48. This feature was apparently added last year and only works on gen 3 versions of ATV. (like other iOS devices). Even Mac OS X Sequia does not do automatic bit rate switching.
• No compression like with Airplay
• I've found bump to lossless 24bit audio is the differentiator, much more so than the difference between 48/96/192 sample rates. Do I want high Rez?...of course! ... but with 24/48, lack of 96/192 isn't a deal breaker any longer, it sounds fantastic.

Would someone mind confirming ATV works like this directly with Wiim Ultra/Amp Pro without needing to extract the audio first?

I could see moving to ATV/Amp Pro to get native Apple Music control and super simple/great sound quality setup.

All that said, dang it Apple, why make us jump through hoops, just give us 24/192 Airplay option and call it a day.

Good luck!

But… isn’t that AirPlay? AirPlay enhanced when communicating with aTV?

 

[D700]

But… isn’t that AirPlay? AirPlay enhanced when communicating with aTV?

Nope. First thing I checked was rebooting my phone while it was playing.

 

[mikerick39]

If you have given up on Airplay with Wiim (curse you Apple) or your device doesn't have it, here's best option I've found:

For those seeking:

• Wiim/Apple Music Ecosystem integration
• Apple Music navigation: view, select, play, pause from any Mac, iPhone, iPad, Watch
• Lossless music up to 24/48
• Automatic bit rate switching: 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48

Hardware:

• Apple 4K TV - Generation 3 (A2737, A2843)
• Monoprice Blackbird HDMI Extractor - Optical Out to Wiim Device
• Note: I don't have Wiim Ultra or Amp Pro but I'd assume you can skip the extractor since they have HDMI eArc input.

Notes:

• You can run ATV without a display but you'll need one for initial setup.
• To play music: Use "Control Center - Apple Music" remote option to select streams, stations, library music: play, pause music
• Control Center Remote works from all Apple Devices including Apple Watch.
• Unintuitive Apple Feature:
  • When you drag down Control Center on iOS, there's a grayed out side panel that shows Apple Music icon.
  • Select Apple Music icon, it presents list of Airplay devices then scroll down to bottom to see "other devices"
  • Select your ATV from Other Devices and you'll be controlling Apple Music natively on the ATV, not over airplay. (the magic sauce)
• On ATV you'll need to:
  • Enable "Settings> Users & Accounts> Home Sharing" which requires pairing to Apple Music. Repeat for other Apple devices you wish to use to control ATV.
  • Set "Settings -> Apps -> Music -> Audio Quality -> Lossless Audio
  • Set the "Settings->General->Sleep After" setting far enough out that it doesn't go to sleep while you are futzing around in Apple Music or pause it for a phone call.

Advantages of the ATV4K (Gen 3) versus Airplay:

• This provides reliable, automatic bit rate switching of uncompressed lossless 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48. This feature was apparently added last year and only works on gen 3 versions of ATV. (like other iOS devices). Even Mac OS X Sequia does not do automatic bit rate switching.
• No compression like with Airplay
• I've found bump to lossless 24bit audio is the differentiator, much more so than the difference between 48/96/192 sample rates. Do I want high Rez?...of course! ... but with 24/48, lack of 96/192 isn't a deal breaker any longer, it sounds fantastic.

Would someone mind confirming ATV works like this directly with Wiim Ultra/Amp Pro without needing to extract the audio first?

I could see moving to ATV/Amp Pro to get native Apple Music control and super simple/great sound quality setup.

All that said, dang it Apple, why make us jump through hoops, just give us 24/192 Airplay option and call it a day.

Good luck!

How do you

If you have given up on Airplay with Wiim (curse you Apple) or your device doesn't have it, here's best option I've found:

For those seeking:

• Wiim/Apple Music Ecosystem integration
• Apple Music navigation: view, select, play, pause from any Mac, iPhone, iPad, Watch
• Lossless music up to 24/48
• Automatic bit rate switching: 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48

Hardware:

• Apple 4K TV - Generation 3 (A2737, A2843)
• Monoprice Blackbird HDMI Extractor - Optical Out to Wiim Device
• Note: I don't have Wiim Ultra or Amp Pro but I'd assume you can skip the extractor since they have HDMI eArc input.

Notes:

• You can run ATV without a display but you'll need one for initial setup.
• To play music: Use "Control Center - Apple Music" remote option to select streams, stations, library music: play, pause music
• Control Center Remote works from all Apple Devices including Apple Watch.
• Unintuitive Apple Feature:
  • When you drag down Control Center on iOS, there's a grayed out side panel that shows Apple Music icon.
  • Select Apple Music icon, it presents list of Airplay devices then scroll down to bottom to see "other devices"
  • Select your ATV from Other Devices and you'll be controlling Apple Music natively on the ATV, not over airplay. (the magic sauce)
• On ATV you'll need to:
  • Enable "Settings> Users & Accounts> Home Sharing" which requires pairing to Apple Music. Repeat for other Apple devices you wish to use to control ATV.
  • Set "Settings -> Apps -> Music -> Audio Quality -> Lossless Audio
  • Set the "Settings->General->Sleep After" setting far enough out that it doesn't go to sleep while you are futzing around in Apple Music or pause it for a phone call.

Advantages of the ATV4K (Gen 3) versus Airplay:

• This provides reliable, automatic bit rate switching of uncompressed lossless 16/44.1, 24/44.1, 24/48. This feature was apparently added last year and only works on gen 3 versions of ATV. (like other iOS devices). Even Mac OS X Sequia does not do automatic bit rate switching.
• No compression like with Airplay
• I've found bump to lossless 24bit audio is the differentiator, much more so than the difference between 48/96/192 sample rates. Do I want high Rez?...of course! ... but with 24/48, lack of 96/192 isn't a deal breaker any longer, it sounds fantastic.

Would someone mind confirming ATV works like this directly with Wiim Ultra/Amp Pro without needing to extract the audio first?

I could see moving to ATV/Amp Pro to get native Apple Music control and super simple/great sound quality setup.

All that said, dang it Apple, why make us jump through hoops, just give us 24/192 Airplay option and call it a day.

Good luck!

I just got the 4K set up with my Amp Pro and it works great. I did still have to get an HDMI extractor. My only wish is that the Apple Classical App was made available for the 4K.

 

[D700]

How do you

I just got the 4K set up with my Amp Pro and it works great. I did still have to get an HDMI extractor. My only wish is that the Apple Classical App was made available for the 4K.

100% on the Classical Music App integration. Control Center Remote isn't integrated in the Classic Music App on iPhone either but it is integrated into Apple Music apps, so you can work around it by using the search bar in Apple Music.

Click on search, wait for genres to pop up then select Classical. It's 2 extra clicks but gets to roughly the same interface as the dedicated Classical app.

@mikerick39 thanks for confirming that HDMI Audio Extractor is still required even for Ultra/AMP Pro.

 

[mikerick39]

100% on the Classical Music App integration. Control Center Remote isn't integrated in the Classic Music App on iPhone either but it is integrated into Apple Music apps, so you can work around it by using the search bar in Apple Music.

Click on search, wait for genres to pop up then select Classical. It's 2 extra clicks but gets to roughly the same interface as the dedicated Classical app.

@mikerick39 thanks for confirming that HDMI Audio Extractor is still required even for Ultra/AMP Pro.

Couple questions…

How do you do volume control? I use the WiiM app but is there a way to do it through Apple Music? How does one control Apple Music on the 4K with a MacBook Pro?

 

[D700]

Make sure you've turned on Home Sharing and paired all the devices, you'll get prompted to enter 4 digit code to authenticate with each device.

Once that's done, you'll get new device option in Control Center. For iOS, when you drag down from top right, you'll see an Apple Music icon on the right hand side in control center, with further option for "Control Other Speakers and TVs". In this context, the ATV4K is just another TV which I've named "Library". On Mac, you'll see "Switch To" option when you click on Airplay icon in Apple Music app. From there, both controls should be consistent across Mac OS/iOS.

Here's some screenshots:

 

[D700]

Couple questions…

How do you do volume control? I use the WiiM app but is there a way to do it through Apple Music? How does one control Apple Music on the 4K with a MacBook Pro?

@mikerick39 I realized I didn't answer your question, sorry.

In this setup, ATV4K is acting like a CD player with fixed digital out. The Wiim does all the processing (D/A, EQ, Volume). I recently bought a small dedicated 15" monitor with HDMI/USB C inputs outputs, Im going to play around and see how the controls work...but I think its a normal ATV>TV>AMP scenario and you'd still need either the ATV remote or Wiim Amp remote to control volume.

If anyone knows, please post.

for my needs, I leave my volume set constant on my Marantz amp, so just want to use Apple Music to control selection/playback from whatever Apple device I'm on. This is working fine for me.

 

[mikerick39]

My setup is finally working good with the 4K box, my Macbook, Iphone and WiiM Amp Pro. Thanks for the instructions above! Prior to this I was thinking there had to be a way to utilize a 4K box to get full lossless but just couldn't get the control part down. For me when using my iphone I can only adjust volume via the WiiM app, but I can adjust the volume when using my Macbook. Not sure what the difference is but I can deal.

I don't see the tiling like shown in your 454 screenshot. Is that a setting I'm missing?

 

[D700]

My setup is finally working good with the 4K box, my Macbook, Iphone and WiiM Amp Pro. Thanks for the instructions above! Prior to this I was thinking there had to be a way to utilize a 4K box to get full lossless but just couldn't get the control part down. For me when using my iphone I can only adjust volume via the WiiM app, but I can adjust the volume when using my Macbook. Not sure what the difference is but I can deal.

I don't see the tiling like shown in your 454 screenshot. Is that a setting I'm missing?

454 is just the screen that shows in Control Center on iPhone when I select the little Apple Music icon

If you're adjust volume from your MacBook, most likely you're getting Airplay to ATV to Wiim, which is compressed, not lossless. Make sure you've paired via Home sharing with that MacBook and then select the ATV from the "Control Other Speakers" menu.

The engineers responsible for this user flow must have worked on the Microsoft Zune project.

 

[mikerick39]

When I am using AirPlay to play Apple Music from MacBook to my 4K the WiiM Home app shows the signal as 24 bit, which is the same as when I’m using control center to run the 4K via my iPhone.

Is this what your WiiM Home shows when you’re using the 4K? Is it possible AirPlay is using the 4K directly and thus the full lossless signal?

Also I have no option for the Apple TV Remote widget that I can find on my MacBook Pro. Are you running Sequioa?




Sorry about all the questions…

 

[D700]

What is your hdmi audio extractor setting set to? Mine is set to 2ch

Try installing iTunes remote, I installed that a while back and may not have realized it was needed/being used.

Control the Apple TV app on Mac with iTunes Remote

Set up the iTunes Remote app to control the Apple TV app on your Mac from your iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch.

support.apple.com

 

[mikerick39]

My extractor is set to 2ch as well. I've basically settled on using my iphone to control the 4K, works like a charm. Thanks again.