Crossfeed for headphone use...

[canard]

It's often been suggested...

But given the audio processing capabilities, it would be really nice to integrate a variable crossfeed function alongside PEQ for use in "headphone mode"...
While not a cure-all, it's still a welcome option and is being offered more and more frequently.
this approach is quite well documented online...
some DACs even offer it, or software, etc...
(Some professional headphone brands are even starting to offer dedicated software for their headphones that integrates this function (like Beyer recently).)

;-)
This could be offered in peq mode...with the necessary "autogain" ..and a balance...

 

[canard]

So, what are the best channels for passing these kinds of suggestions on to the Wiim team?
That's a real issue , no ?
;-)

 

[Burnside]

So, what are the best channels for passing these kinds of suggestions on to the Wiim team?
That's a real issue , no ?
;-)

This should come as no surprise - the more/feedback section in the WiiM Home app...

 

[Deleted member 34890]

Anyone who knows what crossfeed is - and actually bothers with it - has long since sorted themselves out. It’s a niche rabbit hole, if you ask me. At some point, these gadgets are just going to explode.

 

[canard]

Anyone who knows what crossfeed is - and actually bothers with it - has long since sorted themselves out. It’s a niche rabbit hole, if you ask me. At some point, these gadgets are just going to explode.

This attempts to address a major problem, a huge limitation in the use of headphones, regardless of their quality. It's really burying your head in the sand to ignore this. I practically forbid myself from using headphones...
(This almost overshadows the fact that the frequency response is a minefield above 500Hz...with little regard for timbre, etc.
Problems... in acoustics... the bass... with headphones above 1kHz... ;-) )

 

[canard]

This should come as no surprise - the more/feedback section in the WiiM Home app...

Really ?
;-)

 

[Deleted member 34890]

This attempts to address a major problem, a huge limitation in the use of headphones, regardless of their quality. It's really burying your head in the sand to ignore this. I practically forbid myself from using headphones... ;-)
(This almost overshadows the fact that the frequency response is a minefield above 500Hz...with little regard for timbre, etc.
Problems... in acoustics... the bass... with headphones above 1kHz... ;-) )

I really know what it means and how important it can be. But there are ways enough and will WiiM deliver a solution for their target clientel "for free"? I doubt it.

 

[canard]

I really know what it means and how important it can be. But there are ways enough and will WiiM deliver a solution for their target clientel "for free"? I doubt it.

Given that the audio processing is here, integred..... it seems plausible to integrate it... but "technically", it requires skills and a willingness to do it...

Given that the PEQ mode is quite rich in bands, it's very welcome with headphone use, perhaps where its use is often considered the most advanced ("headphone correction")... it would be nice to expand on it sith crossfeed.... that's all.
;-)

 

[BMeek]

Users today are more used to hearing terms like 'spatial audio' and 'immersive' whether or not they understand headphone crossfeed.

Contrast what you're asking for to what Apple is doing to make AirPods sound more like a properly-positioned set of speakers in front of you. My 4th-gen AirPods (with the impressive active noise cancelation), connected to my iPhone with the 'TrueDepth camera' that I used to map my pinna / ear geometry while creating my "Personalized Spatial Audio" profile, demonstrate that the related digital audio tech has truly come a long way since the notion of [analogue] crossfeed was developed.

[Edit] All that said, I wouldn't object to such a feature... I just wouldn't ask for it myself. IMHO the headphone output on the WiiM ultra is all it needs to be with PEQ functions even (to the extent that it's useful and not redundant to begin with).

 

[canard]

Are there any solutions/documents/literature on crossfeed processing for headphones, via DSP, known to Wiim engineers?
;-)

 

[TimTim]

Are there any solutions/documents/literature on crossfeed processing for headphones, via DSP, known to Wiim engineers?
;-)

Crossfeed was something I had been hoping for on the Ultra. But, to be fair, unlike other things that have been promised and never been fully implemented yet, crossfeed has never been promised.

Most of my listening has to be done over headphones at the moment and some old jazz recordings can be quite unbearable. My remedy on the Ultra always was switching the output to mono which to my ears is more pleasant than having drums on one side and sax on the other.

PEQ on the Ultra does improve headphone listening but Luxsin has implemented it in a much more convenient way with the caveat that it’s limited to PCM. I never wanted to buy another device when I got the Ultra but that quickly turned into a love-hate relationship. Now I think I’ll be quite happy for the foreseeable future.

 

[canard]

The crossfeed function hadn't really been highlighted in Wiim until now... Just considering that, even with its decent PEQ mode, Wiim consoles are pretty great options for use with headphones (it's surprising, even funny, that they haven't been more "recognized" for this... haha)... The crossfeed function could be an option to implement... because it's one of the biggest limitations of their use ( headphone)...

(For me, apart from using certain uncommon headphones, using headphones isn't really possible regardless of their "quality" about this subject...
Like the disrespectful aspect in Fr, timbre, etc., but there, the help from the PEQ helps a lot.)

(And ultra have a headphone output)

 

[TimTim]

The crossfeed function hadn't really been highlighted in Wiim until now... Just considering that, even with its decent PEQ mode, Wiim consoles are pretty great options for use with headphones (it's surprising, even funny, that they haven't been more "recognized" for this... haha)... The crossfeed function could be an option to implement... because it's one of the biggest limitations of their use.

(For me, apart from using certain uncommon headphones, using headphones isn't really possible regardless of their "quality" about this subject...
Like the disrespectful aspect in Fr, timbre, etc., but there, the help from the PEQ helps a lot.)

It does feel like a missed opportunity when you have got a device that’s this capable. But maybe they want to be the the swiss army knife of audio with a device that does everything sufficiently well for most people assuming that everyone with niche needs will get niche devices anyway.

 

[canard]

Let's say that between useless FFTs or vumetre...(and only on the Ultra...)
and a real audio function (accessible as soon as the DSP processing is present and seems quite powerful) that could be useful with all streamers used as sources, even the Mini...
let's just say I have my answer... ;-)
It was just an invitation to Wiim to take a look over there...
(especially since the Ultra does indeed have a dedicated output)

;-)

just a suggestion...

 

[TimTim]

Let's say that between useless FFTs or vumetre...(and only on the Ultra...)
and a real audio function (accessible as soon as the DSP processing is present and seems quite powerful) that could be useful with all streamers used as sources, even the Mini...
let's just say I have my answer... ;-)
It was just an invitation to Wiim to take a look over there...
(especially since the Ultra does indeed have a dedicated output)

;-)

just a suggestion...

But now we’ve got that fake vinyl sleeve picture to choose instead of the VU meter! Priorities!

I wouldn’t be surprised if we got a coloured vinyl option before crossfeed.

 

[canard]

But in relation to DSP processing/level/overload... there are priorities regarding audio... since many years..

and honestly, the crossfeed comes second...(but it's just a bit of a shame dont make it, like the dynamic loudness feature that was supposed to be in development, useful for low-level listening etc.)

 

[Mr Ee]

The recent Spectrum Analyser changes are an improvement over the initial offering, although I don't know why it still doesn't support the input signal.
But yes, crossfeed would be very welcome here too as I do a lot of headphone listening.
It's one reason why I'm (still) considering the Topping DX5 ii

 

[canard]

Let's say there are the gadgets... the money-makers...

and the functions...


;-))

 

[canard]

The headphone market, a very lucrative sector, doesn't seem to have fully grasped the potential of affordable Wiim streamers, even the smallest ones like the Mini, for their use thanks to the rather advanced PEQ DSP... And Wiim doesn't seem to have realized it either!


The idea of a future streamer with efforts important on this aspect, in terms of quality, power, and connectivity, in headphone output... could be really successful if marketed well...

like continuing to enrich the PEQ mode with more features, such as the number of bands, balance, auto-gain, crossfeed, gateways to PEQ data for headphones, etc...
;-)

Just a suggestion...


The headphone market is really developed... easy to observe...
(I say this all the more because I'm not particularly involved)
And wifi headphone come now...!
;-)

 

[TimTim]

The idea of a future streamer with efforts important on this aspect, in terms of quality, power, and connectivity, could be really successful if marketed well...

like continuing to enrich the PEQ mode with more features, such as the number of bands, balance, auto-gain, crossfeed, gateways to PEQ data for headphones, etc...
;-)

Just a suggestion...

Other brands are already doing this. I believe that by focusing on adding eye candy and adding somewhat lacking versions of streaming apps into the WHA, a big opportunity is missed. I’d assume that a lot of time and effort could be saved if people were able to just use the existing apps of the respective streaming services and WHA would just deal with technical aspects. I don’t believe that the capabilities of the hardware are fully used yet. Then again, most people probably just want to use Spotify in the same way that most people who claim to love coffee would never consider buying a grinder.