Integrating with old hifi in limited space

[nardberg]

Hi, as above, I have an old Arcam Alpha 7 Amp + CD (from 1996!), an old turntable plus some speakers that are too bulky for our situation now, all currently packed away in the attic. Due to a toddler in the house and not being able to trail cables or have speakers on stands, I'm considering a setup where I put my old hifi in a corner with a Wiim device attached, then on the minimal space I have either side of the TV, some small active wireless speakers. Is this viable that the Wiim could take an audio input from the old amp and send it to the speakers over Wifi? If so, could it also function as a streamer with little difficulty i.e. changing the input from the external amp to its own streaming function and sending that to the speakers? Hopefully that makes sense.

I've also considered just having a Wiim amp with some passive speakers on the TV stand but obviously would lose my old system as a potential input.

Everything needs to be small and partner- and toddler-friendly so a Wiim streamer of some sorts and small powered speakers would be ideal if viable.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mr Ee]

Welcome.

Yes, the wiim could take the arcam analog ouput as its input and send it to wireless speakers, but your lovely arcam 7 is then really nothing more than a source switcher between cd and turntable, and you could plug one of those directly into a wiim (assuming TT has a line out).
Wiims (maybe not all models?) can do dlna casting, but there still seem to be some issues with that for some reported here. Any (non-wiim) speakers you choose would need to support dnla casting.

Is it really not possible to have speaker cable from the arcam to some passive speakers by the tv?
That's how my arcam alpha 6 is set up
Tv optical to wiim pro, optical to dac, dac to alpha 6, to speakers. Can then have tv or streaming to speakers.

 

[nardberg]

Hi, thanks for your helpful reply. I hadn't considered that my Alpha 7 is still a lovely amp, I certainly used to feel that way when I bought it, but it's been in a box since 2017, and we've moved house twice since then. Getting gradually introduced to Wiim through YouTube has made me want to get a Hifi setup again with the bonus of incorporating streaming.

I guess, if pushed, speaker wire wouldn't be impossible, The Kef speakers are bi-wired and there are yards of cable that look like garden hose - that's probably why I'm so averse (and think it would be a hard sell). If the logistics were a bit simpler with different speakers and cable, I would definitely consider that.

Good to know that DNLA is the protocol for wireless streaming if I go down that route. I'll do some more reading up on that thanks.

I'm curious about the DAC step in your setup. I know the DAC theory but have never heard an external DAC compared to not using one. Your setup implies that an external DAC will benefit the Wiim pro sound more than plugging directly into the Alpha 6. At what price point DAC does that become the case, or is it just down to what sound you prefer?

Thanks again, much appreciated.

 

[Mr Ee]

In my opinion the mini's and pro's analog outputs are both somewhat lacking and benefit greatly from pretty much any external dac.
In contrast, I think the ultra's analog output is really good. I've not got a pro plus, but by many accounts it's on par with the ultra.
It's a contentious subject; some will tell you all half-decent dacs sound the same, some will say they can hear (perhaps subtle) differences.

Your first post said your current speakers are too large for the new space and indicated that you were keen to keep your arcam etc., so I thought you were effectively already resigned to buying new (or 2nd hand?) smaller speakers, whether wireless or 'normal'. A little bit of thinner speaker cable shouldn't break the bank!

I remember training the cats to keep away from the hi fi with a water squirter, but I can't recall how I trained my toddlers to keep away ...
Good luck with whatever you choose to do, but maybe just get the boxed gear out and check it all still works first!

 

[poldark]

Although you may find this unacceptable, just because a speaker is bi-wireable you don't have to use it that way, you can only run a single speaker line and halve the trouble.

You will potentially lose a fraction of the available SQ, but life is full of compromises!!

 

[d6jg]

Good to know that DNLA is the protocol for wireless streaming if I go down that route. I'll do some more reading up on that thanks.

DLNA is A protocol for wireless streaming but by no means THE protocol

 

[nardberg]

In my opinion the mini's and pro's analog outputs are both somewhat lacking and benefit greatly from pretty much any external dac.
In contrast, I think the ultra's analog output is really good. I've not got a pro plus, but by many accounts it's on par with the ultra.
It's a contentious subject; some will tell you all half-decent dacs sound the same, some will say they can hear (perhaps subtle) differences.

Your first post said your current speakers are too large for the new space and indicated that you were keen to keep your arcam etc., so I thought you were effectively already resigned to buying new (or 2nd hand?) smaller speakers, whether wireless or 'normal'. A little bit of thinner speaker cable shouldn't break the bank!

I remember training the cats to keep away from the hi fi with a water squirter, but I can't recall how I trained my toddlers to keep away ...
Good luck with whatever you choose to do, but maybe just get the boxed gear out and check it all still works first!

That's a perfect explanation re: the dac thanks. I definitely intend to buy new speakers and of course some new, thinner cables would be sensible - I think I've just got caught up in thinking that the hosepipes are an integral part of the whole package where of course, something more subtle is unlikely to make a huge difference and I'm not looking for audiophile perfection.

I've got the stepladder out and it's sat under the loft waiting to go. That's taken about a month so it's a good job I'm not impatient. I do hope it's all still working.

Thanks again for your help - I'm looking forward to putting something together and getting a Wiim device into the fold. Cheers.

 

[nardberg]

Although you may find this unacceptable, just because a speaker is bi-wireable you don't have to use it that way, you can only run a single speaker line and halve the trouble.

You will potentially lose a fraction of the available SQ, but life is full of compromises!!

I don't find that unnacceptable at all no - I'm just guilty of a bit of blinkered thinking.

Where partners, toddlers and hifi are concerned, life is primarily compromises yes

 

[nardberg]

DLNA is A protocol for wireless streaming but by no means THE protocol

Noted, and a very worthwhile distinction thanks

 

[Mr Ee]

Although you may find this unacceptable, just because a speaker is bi-wireable you don't have to use it that way, you can only run a single speaker line and halve the trouble.

Indeed.
The bi-wireable speakers I'm listening to now (via the ultra and vibelink ) have a small strip of the same speaker cable between the posts.
It's a small, "flat" cable that's in complete contrast to the finger-sized pipes feading my main system.

 

[nardberg]

By way of update (has it been nearly two months!). I got my Arcam Alpha 7 amp+cd, and Kef Q15s from the loft. They still work perfectly and despite the awkward space, sound amazing. However, the speakers have been rejected on grounds of size and of being 'big black boxes'. It's a fair comment to be fair, but a little demoralising given how well they play together. I've been desperately trying to research smaller passive speakers so I don't lose my amp+cd but not had much joy. The Q15s seem possibly to be the smallest passive that Kef have made but are still 31cm, 26cm deep - just too much to sit in this smallish room - the stands had already been rejected before I even got the rest out.

I did listen to some active Kef LSX II's last week - they sound lovely, are tiny and partner-friendly and they do the 3d sound-throwing thing that I love my Q15's for. However, I would lose my amp (and the itch to grab an Alpha 9 or 10 off Ebay is strong), and also the active Kefs have their own streaming ecosystem which receives mixed reviews. I'd still like to incorporate Wiim as it feels like a more innovative space to be honest (but would obviously be doubling up as an input to a speaker system with its own streaming).

I need to steel myself that the amp and passives go back in the loft for another 10 years until I have a space big enough to accomodate some passive speakers. Sadly, the Kef LS50 Metas, as lovely as they are, are perhaps even bigger than my Q15s and even the curves won't get them past quality control.

Any input appreciated as I feel like I've considered everything but not arrived at a satisfying answer yet. I don't really have a budget, obviously the active Kefs are £1200 so that figure is within reason. Cheers.

 

[poldark]

I'm a bit of a Monitor Audio fanboy, Darko had a very positive review recently too.

https://www.puretheatre.com/monitor-audio-silver-100/

 

[nardberg]

Great thanks - they do look lovely. They're still quite chunky but look nice in white - maybe that helps when trying to get them past.

The irony (or probably the scientific reality) is that the nicer a passive speaker, the more I want to spend, the bigger the cabinets they need.

It feels like I'm being railroaded into actives, just on that factor alone. If I can find nice actives that have decent inputs (e.g. for a Wiim), are partner friendly, and aren't tied to an ecosystem, that might be where I'm headed.

I'll check out the review too as I'm interested in all angles, cheers

 

[Mr Ee]

The longer you leave the Q15s in place the more they will become something that The Rejector will stop noticing as new and imposing.
Well, maybe... I tried this but was still forced to move my floorstanders closer to the wall. But not as close as they were originally.

Good luck.

 

[nardberg]

The longer you leave the Q15s in place the more they will become something that The Rejector will stop noticing as new and imposing.
Well, maybe... I tried this but was still forced to move my floorstanders closer to the wall. But not as close as they were originally.

Good luck.

Hah, sadly they didn't last more than a couple of days in the room. There genuinely wasn't enough space for them. I just found some Sonus Faber Lumina 1's in a shop in town - very neat looking and small enough - they're going to let me try to drive them with my Arcam, then a modern streamer / amp, and compare against a pair of Kef LSX II's. I need to decide whether passive is worth pursuing or just relent and clear the decks for a pair of actives. Cheers

 

[poldark]

Q Acoustics M20 small actives are highly rated by several "Reviewers" (A British Audiophile for one)

 

[harkpabst]

The Q15s seem possibly to be the smallest passive that Kef have made but are still 31cm, 26cm deep - just too much to sit in this smallish room ...

So, maybe start with what size would be acceptable and which dimension is most critical, height, width or depth?

The Dali Option 1 Mk II are even less high than the Lumina 1, 4 mm wider and 18 mm deeper and usually considered extremely good value.

Be careful when comparing the depth, because catalogue values might not be comparable. Some makers will provide values with the binding posts included, others won't. Some binding posts will stick out, but some others even won't.

 

[nardberg]

So, maybe start with what size would be acceptable and which dimension is most critical, height, width or depth?

The Dali Option 1 Mk II are even less high than the Lumina 1, 4 mm wider and 18 mm deeper and usually considered extremely good value.

Be careful when comparing the depth, because catalogue values might not be comparable. Some makers will provide values with the binding posts included, others won't. Some binding posts will stick out, but some others even won't.

Great thanks. Those are really nice looking and very comparable to the luminas in size. Will have a look if they have those in my local - it looks like AV.com only have nearly new. Another one for the shortlist thanks