Jitter over digital outputs for different WiiMs

[onlyoneme]

Let's talk about the jitter over digital outputs. I will use the Holo Audio Spring 3 DAC which is a true NOS DAC and has an unique ability to turn off its PLL. This way I can compare a raw performance of the outputs in j-test.

Ultra, toslink:




Ultra, coaxial:




Pro, toslink:




Pro, coaxial:




Mini, toslink:





Non-WiiM device for a quick comparison, SMSL PO100 Pro, coaxial:





All WiiMs have similar random jitter level, which is reflected by the noise floor, but they differ a lot with the periodic jitter, which is visible as symmetric spikes around the fundamental signal. The Mini is definitely the worst one.

Statements about the same, "perfect" quality of all WiiMs digital outputs are unjustified.



A disclaimer, as I didn't mention it yet - all these tests were made with 48 kHz test signal, which is commonly used for jitter measurements. Results may differ for higher sample rates which may be more problematic for toslink cables, especially lower quality ones.

For example, 192 kHz test case on the Pro, toslink vs coaxial:


Coaxial output wins here.

Another example, 192 kHz again but the Pro vs the Ultra, both on coaxial outputs:


The advantage of the Ultra is more visible.

 

[Matias]

Nice. And I assume once the PLL is turned on they all get significantly lower? I know this depends on the competence of each DAC, but still curious.

 

[onlyoneme]

Nice. And I assume one the PLL is turned on they all get significantly lower? I know this depends on the competence of each DAC, but still curious.

Yeah, this is for the Ultra, coaxial, but the PLL is on:




As you said, the final result depends on the DAC.

 

[AlPo]

This is a very illuminating test, thank you @onlyoneme! Very, very interesting comparison.

P.s. coincidentally, I have SMSL PO 100 Pro running Toslink into my WiiM Pro Plus and then Toslink out into my KEF LSX as one of digital chains (a way to get Hi Res out of MacOS Apple Music in addition to Qobuz via Roon). Nice to see solid Toslink performance by WiiM as there is no Coax input on the LSX

 

[AlPo]

Also, which power supply for Pro and Mini in this test?

 

[steadyshot]

What about pll off and jitter below 1k . Can you measure from 10 hz for example ?

 

[onlyoneme]

Also, which power supply for Pro and Mini in this test?

Sbooster LPS.

 

[cc_rider]

Yeah, this is for the Ultra, coaxial, but the PLL is on:

View attachment 9697


As you said, the final result depends on the DAC.

With Steadyclock FS, I don’t even need to think about jitter, thankfully.

 

[steadyshot]

With Steadyclock FS, I don’t even need to think about jitter, thankfully.

What about noise increasing as the clock deals with an increasing amount of jitter? What about incoming jitter from the source being minimal , limiting the noise produced from the Steadyclock since it works less to reduce it?

 

[Bismarck]

If I understand well, in WiiM devices jitter is slightly worse in coax.
Am I wrong?

 

[Smartplug]

If I understand well, in WiiM devices jitter is slightly worse in coax.
Am I wrong?

Don’t say that. I just connect my ultra to external dac via coax. I would not buy ultra if not for its digital out. The external dac with dual ess 9068 and dual 5X opa 1612a provided elevated listening experience than internal dac. This dac cost more than the ultra.

 

[Bismarck]

Don’t say that. I just connect my ultra to external dac via coax. I would not buy ultra if not for its digital out. The external dac with dual ess 9068 and dual 5X opa 1612a provided elevated listening experience than internal dac. This dac cost more than the ultra.

My question comes from genuine ignorance.
I am not able to understand those diagrams.

 

[Smartplug]

My question comes from genuine ignorance.
I am not able to understand those diagrams.

Let’s see what he has to say.

 

[Smartplug]

Yeah, this is for the Ultra, coaxial, but the PLL is on:

View attachment 9697


As you said, the final result depends on the DAC.

I have dac that is adjustable on PLL. Is higher number better?

 

[onlyoneme]

I have dac that is adjustable on PLL. Is higher number better?

It probably means the stronger jitter suppression, but better verify the manual.
There are also drawbacks possible, higher level may increase locking time of the DAC or even may make the sync impossible for low quality input signals.

 

[onlyoneme]

If I understand well, in WiiM devices jitter is slightly worse in coax.
Am I wrong?

No, you are not wrong. Toslink outputs are slightly better. Except for the Mini which has it poor.

 

[AlPo]

Another interesting observation is that a significantly more accurate SPDIF eye pattern with Ultra vs Pro does not translate into a significantly better jitter spectrum in this setup

 

[Bismarck]

Another interesting observation is that a significantly more accurate SPDIF eye pattern with Ultra vs Pro does not translate into a significantly better jitter spectrum in this setup

I am afraid I don’t understand what you are saying…
Can you please explain it to an eight years old child?

 

[Smartplug]

It probably means the stronger jitter suppression, but better verify the manual.
There are also drawbacks possible, higher level may increase locking time of the DAC or even may make the sync impossible for low quality input signals.

You have rme dac right? Is the dac you have has better measurements than any current line offer by topping/smsl? From what other reviewer saying despite its outdated chipset it outperforms the top end topping/smsl?

 

[adias]

No, you are not wrong. Toslink outputs are slightly better. Except for the Mini which has it poor.

Ultra's USB is what is needed, connected to a DAC with a competent USB input, meaning the external DAC has a high precision clock (not all do).