Hi There, I’m using a REL subwoofer, which has a high-level input (directly from the speakers), and two low-level inputs - RCA and ./LFE. From what I understand, movies use a separate track for the bass effect and it doesn’t quite replicate the bass on the speakers. This input in my sub is called ./LFE. My question: is the Sub out on the Wiim Ultra a separate channel that is recorded separately in the movie, or a standard audio signal with the required bass cutoff frequency?
LFE / Sub out
- Thread starter Andrew_Ko
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Correct LFE is a seperate track. AFAIK the sub out will not be the dedicated LFE it'll just be the L/R summed bass
FYI if you are using a AVR DO NOT use high level and low level at the same time, do not set your speakers to large. Ignore Rel setup "advice" and instead follow your AVR manual.
Using sub out from the Ultra will just cause more issues, let the AVR do it's bass management. Just use analogue out from the ultra, or digital, then follow your AVR instructions- run AVR calibration, set speakers to small 80hz etc.
Read here
FYI if you are using a AVR DO NOT use high level and low level at the same time, do not set your speakers to large. Ignore Rel setup "advice" and instead follow your AVR manual.
Using sub out from the Ultra will just cause more issues, let the AVR do it's bass management. Just use analogue out from the ultra, or digital, then follow your AVR instructions- run AVR calibration, set speakers to small 80hz etc.
Read here
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Do you even have the ultra integrated with an AVR?
The trouble is that the term "LFE" is really used for two different things. For one it's the Low Frequency Effects channel (you already know that) and this indeed contains additional bass effects, which augment the content in the front and rear channels. In particular the front channels have no limit regarding the lowest frequency the signal may contain. The LFE was invented so cinema systems could provide louder bass for special effects by adding subwoofers without having to replace the existing speakers.
However, the "./LFE" input label simply refers to an input with no low pass filtering applied by the subwoofer itself. It relies on the feeding device to only serve content below an appropriate frequency. Either because the original signal did not contain any content above a certain frequency (e.g. 120 Hz for Dolby Digital) or because the feeding device splits the signal between mains and sub at any freely chosen crossover frequency. This is more or less completely unrelated to the LFE and if you play 2-channel or multi-channel content. Misleading, unfortunately, but nothing to worry about.
No matter if the programme material even has content in the LFE or not, pretty much every AVR can be configured to mix the bass content from the mains channel and the LFE and route the resulting signal to just the sub, the mains and the sub in parallel or even just the mains (there's no reason to do that if you have a sub, of course).
As of now, the WiiM Ultra accepts Dolby Digital as the only multi-channel format, but according to tests performed by others it ignores the LFE signal and just composes the 5 remaining channels into a PCM stereo signal. This is not as terrible as it may seem, because the LFE should never contain any important material exclusively. It's really just meant for additional effects, scaring the users.
This behaviour might or might not change in the future.All this is of pretty much no importance if you don't have an AVR and a 5.1 speaker system and want to integrate the Ultra.
If all you have is a stereo system including the sub, just connect the Ultra's sub out to the subwoofer's "./LFE" input and set the crossover frequency, subwoofer level and delay in the WiiM Home app. Keep the level knob on the sub at ~50%. Choose the crossover frequency based on your speakers and your room. 80 Hz is always a reasonable starting point. You might try lower values (if you have large speakers that can handle more bass) or even higher values (if you have small speakers and the sub resides pretty much in the middle between them).
Downmixing multi-channel content to stereo and routing the output to sub and/or mains are two different things.
In any case, don't listen to what REL says. Their advice is totally outdated, misleading and in some cases even dangerous.
This is an excellent resource explaining what the LFE channel is and what it isn't:
The Misunderstood 0.1 LFE Channel in 5.1 Digital Surround Sound - HomeTheaterHifi.com
In 5.1 digital surround sound, the 0.1 channel is called the LFE or Low Frequency Effects channel. While in the commercial system it is referred to as the subwoofer channel, this is not necessarily true for home theater setups.
hometheaterhifi.com
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I use the Wiim Ultra as a network transport, then over coaxial cable it is connected to the DAC Schiit Modi Multibit. After that, I use a Rega Elicit as an amplifier. in the current configuration REL is connected by high-level input - via Speakon.
So, you are controlling the volume on the Ultra? Do you also have main speakers connected?
Anyway, no matter what REL is talking about smooth blending and coherency of the signal and whatnot: You will be better off connecting the Ultra subwoofer output to the .LFE input via RCA instead of the high level input and enable the subwoofer out in the WiiM Home app.
The Ultra 's digital crossover will implement a well defined low pass and high pass filter. You no longer have to try and somehow match the "natural roll-off" of your speakers. Instead you can pick the crossover frequency based on best acoustics in your room. Relieving the mains from having to play down low will also reduce their distortion (linear, non-linear, IMD and Doppler). You can compensate for different listing distances to mains and sub. And any delay introduced by the sub itself, which might not be a big thing with most REL subs, though. All this is absolutely impossible when using the high level input.
The good news Your Elicit works safely with the high level wires connected. This is not the case with all amplifiers (as even REL mention in their manual, IIRC).
The only cool thing about high level input is that nice SpeakOn connector.
Give it a try, there's nothing to loose. Any RCA cable of fitting length will do.
Anyway, no matter what REL is talking about smooth blending and coherency of the signal and whatnot: You will be better off connecting the Ultra subwoofer output to the .LFE input via RCA instead of the high level input and enable the subwoofer out in the WiiM Home app.
The Ultra 's digital crossover will implement a well defined low pass and high pass filter. You no longer have to try and somehow match the "natural roll-off" of your speakers. Instead you can pick the crossover frequency based on best acoustics in your room. Relieving the mains from having to play down low will also reduce their distortion (linear, non-linear, IMD and Doppler). You can compensate for different listing distances to mains and sub. And any delay introduced by the sub itself, which might not be a big thing with most REL subs, though. All this is absolutely impossible when using the high level input.
The good news Your Elicit works safely with the high level wires connected. This is not the case with all amplifiers (as even REL mention in their manual, IIRC).
The only cool thing about high level input is that nice SpeakOn connector.
Give it a try, there's nothing to loose. Any RCA cable of fitting length will do.
Generally you'd do one of the following
Ultra as a Pre-amp- outputs go into a power amplifier, set variable output on the ulra. Subwoofer pre out into the sub. Use bass management in the ultra
Ultra as a digital source- digital optical/coaxial into a DAC, fixed level. Then from your DAC into a preamp or integrated amp. Subwoofer connected to the pre amp or power amp. Don't use bass management in the ultra
Ultra as a analogue source- analogue out into a pre amp or integrated amp. Ultra fixed level. Subwoofer connected to the pre amp or poweramp.Don't use bass management in the ultra
If you connect Rel to Wiim how will you get the sub working for other sources? When you adjust the Rega volume it won't scale to the Subwoofer.
Are you using the Rega as a power amplifier or integrated amplifier?
Unfortunately, that cannot work when connecting the sub to the Ultra. As @rccarguy pointed out correctly, the WiiM Ultra doesn't know anything about any volume change adjusted on the Elicit. The sub volume would always stay the same, which of course you don't want.
Yes, the Ultra can adjust the volume of the digital signal fed into the Modi Multibit. In this case the volume of the sub would be adjusted synchronously. However, you would have to keep the volume setting of the Elicit on max. (or - more precisely - at least absolutely constant) all the time. Otherwise the balance between mains and sub would be upset whenever you turn the volume knob.
The Elicit 5 (not sure about earlier model) has a "Direct Input" to the power amplifier section. It's volume control is bypassed in this mode which would be ideal when using the Ultra for subwoofer management and as the volume control. You would use it as a pure power amp then, wasting all the analogue inputs including the phono input if this is important for you.
If you still want to use the Elicit as an integrated amp, you cannot sensible use the Ultra to manage the sub. In that case you would be limited to the speaker level connection.
