Multiroom setup with in ceiling speakers

[Jams]

Hi guys,

I’ve got 8 passive in ceiling speakers that I’d like to link up with Wiim amps.

6 speakers in the living room
1 speaker in the bathroom
1 speaker in the upstairs bathroom

How many Wiim amps do I need to be able to play different audio simultaneously in each zone?

I figured I need 3 amps, but is it even possible to link up 6 speakers to one amp?

And if I disregard the need to play different music in each zone simultaneously, but settle for being able to turn off audio in one or more zones, I figured I’d only need two amps, right?

I’m confused, and would greatly appreciate any help or tips.

Thanks!

 

[Mr Ee]

Welcome.

Different audio simultaneously in 3 different zones - yes, 3 amps, each doing their own thing, effectively unaware of each other. Althougb you could group them in any combination you like when you want synchronised music.
Wiring a single speaker to a stereo amp... I suppose you could wire the speaker to, say, the left speaker terminal, and set the amp to mono and choose full left balance within the app to get both channels to go to the one speaker.

Being able to turn off audio in one or more of the 3 zones - I don't see how you'd get away with less than 3 amps, unless you were thinking of both bathrooms wired to a single amp, one speaker terminal each, amp set to mono, and therefore always playing the same thing as each other? You could possibly make only one play at a time by using the balance control, e.g. full left being downstairs and full right being upstairs.
Can you explain why / how you thought 2 might work? Not trying to be awkward, just trying to uderstand!

6 speakers to one amp? Hmmm, might be a stretch, but might depend on the speakers. Quite unusual. Can't say I'd recommend it, but if you can say what speakers they are maybe someone else can chip in.

 

[Jams]

Thank you.

I’m a noob at this. I recently purchased a new home where these speakers are installed. I don’t know the exact models, as the genius who lived here before didn’t keep the manuals.

The single speakers in the bathrooms are both in ceiling Jamo speakers with a right and left cable.

I honestly don’t know how it’d work with two amps. I figured I’d connect the two speakers in the bathrooms to one amp and the six speakers to another amp.

The 6 speakers in the living room are JBL, but I don’t know the model

I’d love to have one zone in the living room, but maybe I’d need more than one amp to do that?

 

[Mr Ee]

Geniuses don't read / need manuals...

"in ceiling Jamo speakers with a right and left cable"
I'm going to be penantic here - right and left? Or one pair of black/red wires, positive and negative?
Just don't want you to wire them up incorrectly!

Are the speakers like ceiling lights? i.e. can they be popped out of their holes as they are held in by spring clips?
Might help you determine the make/model.

Did you intend to use the 6 lounge speakers for TV audio as well as music?
Asking because if you were to need 2 amps for 6 speakers then putting them in a wiim group so they played the same thing would almost certainly introduce too much of a lip sync delay.
You may want to consider a 'real' AVR for the lounge that has two sets of speaker posts and proper A / B zone controls, i.e. an amp specifically designed to run multiple speakers.
Although you still be attaching 6 speakers to a device that would be expecting 4...
You could always add a pro or similar to that as a music source.

I realise I'm not providing concrete answers. Maybe take some pictures of the speakers, their wires and where they come out of the walls (are they all located in one spot? Sounds like it if you were thinking of wiring both the bathroom and upstairs bathroom to one amp), and hit up a local hifi / av store for insights?
Of course, they will try to sell you what they stock, but maybe you'll get some "expert" advice?

 

[Jls]

I would help to know if they were working before, and if so, where do the wires come out, and how many pairs.

 

[Jams]

The speaker cables look like this: https://www.av-cables.dk/hoejttalerkabel-25-m-rulle/hoejttalerkabel-cca-2x2-50-mm2-25-m.html

I don’t know if the speakers are held in by spring clips, as they are hidden behind acoustic panels in the living room. I’ll check the ones in the bathrooms though.

No, the 6 lounge speakers are solely for music, not TV audio. I saw on a YouTube video that you can bind the cables together and insert them in the amp, but I don’t know if that’s such a good idea.

Yes, all the wires are located in the same spot in a cabinet in the utility room.

Yes, the previous owner played some music for me in the lounge/living room. He had a single Sonos amp connected. I have no clue how he made that work. Perhaps he didn’t have the bathroom speakers connected.

There are 8 pairs of wires. I’ll take some pics when I get home.

Your help is greatly appreciated! Thank you

 

[Jls]

The speaker cables look like this: https://www.av-cables.dk/hoejttalerkabel-25-m-rulle/hoejttalerkabel-cca-2x2-50-mm2-25-m.html

I don’t know if the speakers are held in by spring clips, as they are hidden behind acoustic panels in the living room. I’ll check the ones in the bathrooms though.

No, the 6 lounge speakers are solely for music, not TV audio. I saw on a YouTube video that you can bind the cables together and insert them in the amp, but I don’t know if that’s such a good idea.

Yes, all the wires are located in the same spot in a cabinet in the utility room.

Yes, the previous owner played some music for me in the lounge/living room. He had a single Sonos amp connected. I have no clue how he made that work. Perhaps he didn’t have the bathroom speakers connected.

There are 8 pairs of wires. I’ll take some pics when I get home.

Your help is greatly appreciated! Thank you

Does the term series/parallel mean anything to you?

What is a Series-Parallel Circuit? | Series-parallel Combination Circuits | Electronics Textbook

Read about What is a Series-Parallel Circuit? (Series-parallel Combination Circuits) in our free Electronics Textbook

www.allaboutcircuits.com

This allows you to connect four or eight speakers to one amp without affecting the impedance seen by the amp. Obviously, max volume will be reduced, but the amp will not care.

 

[Jams]

No, I haven’t heard about aeries/parallel, and quite frankly, I don’t understand the article. English is not my first language, and I’m really not *that* technical.

I believe the bathroom speakers are these:

Jamo 6.52 DVCA2 165 In-Ceiling Single Stereo Speaker for Indoor or Outdoor -

Key Features Pivoting domes that can be directed to the room's sweet spot A paintable frame and grille to blend invisibly in any room Dual voice coil for true stereo sound from a single speaker

theaudioguys.com.au

or

Jamo 8.52DVCA2 In-Ceiling Single Stereo Indoor/Outdoor Speaker

Jamo 8.52DVCA2 In-Ceiling Speaker is a 2-way in-ceiling speaker, part of the comprehensive Architectural Series, which consists of high-quality speakers at astonishingly affordable prices. <br /> A unique feature of the I/O 8.52DVCA2 is the ability

www.digitalcinema.com.au

I’ve attached a picture of the speaker wires. The one from the upstairs bathroom is missing. It’s behind some shoes on the top shelf.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

The living room speakers would have almost certainly been connected to the Sonos amp in parallel with three speakers + wires twisted together and three speakers - twisted together to each channel.
This would present a very low impedance load (a third of the impedance of an individual speaker if I'm not mistaken) and thereby triple the load on the amp.

 

[Jls]

I’m at a loss here. Can you tell which wires are pairs, and which speakers they go to? Are they marked for polarity? Does one wire in each pair have a stripe or visual indicator?

If you can sort them to their speakers, label them. Then sort them by groups that you want to play together.

 

[Jls]

The living room speakers would have almost certainly been connected to the Sonos amp in parallel with three speakers + wires twisted together and three speakers - twisted together to each channel.
This would present a very low impedance load (a third of the impedance of an individual speaker if I'm not mistaken) and thereby triple the load on the amp.

That’s why I brought series/parallel. If you don’t understand it, you need to read about it until you do, or find a professional installer who does.

The other possibility is that the speakers are high impedance and designed to be in parallel.

 

[Jams]

I’ll read up on series/parallel - or go visit my local hifi shop.

Yes, the wires are marked:
Living room - kitchen
Living room - dining table
Living room - sofa
Bathroom 1
Bathroom 2 (hidden behind a shoe shelf)

There’s no stripe or visual indicators, and they’re not marked for polarity

The bathroom speakers are 8 ohm.

 

[Jls]

The lack of polarity markers is a bummer, but look again. Your picture isn’t perfectly in focus, but if I zoom in, I think I see a strip or rib on one of the wires. If there is, you can highlight it with a magic marker.

Absolute polarity is unimportant, but speakers in the same room should be matched

 

[FreakyKiwi]

The Wiim amp has a specified minimum impedence of 3 ohm.

Technical Specification of the WiiM Amp and WiiM Amp Pro

Technical Specification WiiM AmpWiiM Amp Pro Audio Amplification TI TPA3255 TI TPA3255 Main Purpose Connected to passive speaker for streaming Connected to passive speaker for streaming Pair with a Sub Y Y USB Port (Storage/Audio Ou...

faq.wiimhome.com

Three x 8 ohm speakers in parallel, assuming the living room speakers are 8 ohm, would present a 2.66 ohm load.
Two in parallel, and the third in series would be a 12 ohm load, but the two in parallel would be louder.
I'd say that this would work if you want this to be a single zone, otherwise you would need a speaker selector, multiple amplifiers, or a multi zone amplifier.

The wires appear to be all individual rather than connected pairs so you are going to need to access the speaker end and use a tester to work out which is which.

 

[Jls]

Asking how many Wiim amps you need is the wrong question. For three zones, you just need three cheap Fosi amps and three Wiim minis. $500 as opposed to $900.

You’ve already said the wires are labeled.

 

[Hammer66]

Hi guys,

I’ve got 8 passive in ceiling speakers that I’d like to link up with Wiim amps.

6 speakers in the living room
1 speaker in the bathroom
1 speaker in the upstairs bathroom

How many Wiim amps do I need to be able to play different audio simultaneously in each zone?

I figured I need 3 amps, but is it even possible to link up 6 speakers to one amp?

And if I disregard the need to play different music in each zone simultaneously, but settle for being able to turn off audio in one or more zones, I figured I’d only need two amps, right?

I’m confused, and would greatly appreciate any help or tips.

Thanks!

Wiring six speakers to a single WiiM Amp won’t be possible, as the load presented to the amp would be be less than 2 Ohms, ( if the speakers are 8 Ohm)
You’d be far better using a separate Wiim amp per pair
Another way to do it would be buying a six channel power amp and then using either separate WiiM streamers to each input, if you want separate volume control, or a single streamer combined to the channels
If that makes sense

 

[Jls]

Series Or Parallel Speakers – Which is Better + Pros And Cons

Understanding impedance, Ohms, power, and watts is crucial. Learn how to wire your speakers in series or parallel for optimal audio performance with this guide.

soundcertified.com

You could do one group of eight, or two groups of four.

 

[Jls]

The simplest solution would be to get four $50 Fosi amps on Amazon.

Amazon.com

A preamp or streaming source, and enough cables and splitters to chain them together.

 

[dtc]

First, Take it slow. Hooking up too many speakers to an amp can damage the amp.

The Jamo speakers are basically a left and right pair in a single speaker. You can tell that by the fact that they have connections for 4 wires, 2 for the right and 2 for the left. So, you would probably want one amp for each of those speakers.

For the living room speakers, you need to figure out if those speakers are single speakers or stereo speakers like the Jamos. If they are Jamos you basically have 12 speakers (6 pairs) in the living room. It is likely that they are 6 single speakers and they are meant to be run as 6 mono speakers rather than as 3 stereo pairs. You also have to decide if you need separate volume controls for these speakers or if they can all be run at the same volume. The Wiim amp manual says it can output either dual mono or stereo signals.

You also need to figure out which 2 wires go to each speaker. If they are not marked, that will take some expertise.

If the speakers are standard 8 ohm speakers, you probably cannot connect 3 pairs of speakers (6 total) in parallel to a Wiim amp. Each speaker has an impedance of 8 ohms and 3 in parallel will have an impedance of less than 4 ohms. The amp may or may not be able to handle that low of an impedance. There are impedance matching devices which allow multiple pairs of speakers to be connected to them and the device adjusts the impedances so that it presents a load of 4 ohms to the amp, which the Wiim can handle. The Niles SS-4 is a common one that handles up to 4 pairs of speakers. You can also get a SS-6 which handles 6 pairs. The SS-4 would work as long as the 6 speakers are not stereo speakers like the Jamos. They is also a model that comes with separate volume controls for each pair. You just connect the speakers to the box and then connect the amp to the box.

An impedance matching device will probably be necessary for the living room if you want to use just 1 amp.

Standard Speaker Selector for Four Pairs of Speakers | Niles Audio

nilesaudio.com

 

[Stu]

I have an Wiim Amp powering 12 ceiling speakers (6 pairs/zones) through this:

https://www.artsound.be/en/multiroom/volume-controls/842-svc62#/colour-black

Mine is the old version of this unit and has been rock solid for 20 years. I used to power it with a beefy old power amp but upgraded to the Wiim amp in May. The Wiim amp is about a quarter of the size of my old amp but sounds so much better. Still plenty of power and a lot more high quality sound. The Wiim amp never gets very hot and only need under half volume. I thought I might really have to push the Wiim amp to get the same volume as my old amp but I don't have to at all... Really pleased with the system upgrade

The only downside to the Artsound is you have control each zone from the main unit (not remotely). It's not a massive problem for me though. I have just set the levels up and only have zones turned on which I regularly use. If I want more zones I just manually turn them on.

As mentioned before you need compatible ceiling speakers to work with distribution units such as artsound (I use Apart speakers) If you don't you could blow the amp and your speakers....