My experience with Wiim Ultra

[bnew]

Hey folks! Bought the Wiim Ultra a couple days ago and I'd like to share my opinion.

In the beginning I had mixed feelings. Super convenient in use, yet sonically just ok. The internal DAC sound is pleasant and balanced overall, but a bit on the "digitalish" side. Coaxial output to my dac (my initial scope to be honest) worked better, though not a significant boost from my previous setup (I was using an apple tv, sounded very sweet, but wasn't usable at all). My third option -export from USB port to a DDC- and from there to my dac, worked better, the sound became more open, the textures more natural. Now there is a definite upgrade both in use and listening experience.

I must say I really enjoy the app which is fantastic, including the room correction which opens a whole new door of possibilities. Also the fact that the product has so frequent upgrades and has this vast community presence means WiiM is here to stay.

Overall my experience with WiiM Ultra is positive, yet I believe there is still room for improvement and market expansion. (one more "ultra plus" model on top?
Well done!

 

[m_sherzod]

Glad to hear that! What kind of DAC and DDC you are using?

 

[bnew]

Hi @m_sherzod
a MHDT Havana dac and a HiFace 2 usb to coaxial DDC

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Hi @m_sherzod
a MHDT Havana dac and a HiFace 2 usb to coaxial DDC

interesting, thanks for sharing! that is a cool dac - tube buffered + non oversampling. have you compared it to other DACs??

also why did you choose to add a DDC? did you already have the Hiface 2 lying around or something?

and finally, from what i gather - you noticed quite big differences between the 3 modes you chose - wondering which was the biggest jump? 1>2 or 2>3??

 

[m_sherzod]

Hi @m_sherzod
a MHDT Havana dac and a HiFace 2 usb to coaxial DDC

Thanks. Contrary to many suggesting that you can't hear a difference between DACs, in my case I have seen a noticeable improvement with Geshelli J3 with Sparkos 2590 op amps. Also waiting for the SMSL PO100 Pro (snake oil ) DDC to add into the chain....

 

[bnew]

thanks guys for the replies, proves there's a strong community here

@BowsAndArrows - Hiface to my ears offers better flow -assuming because of its oscillators- The differences are not huge, and WiiM is not at any reason not good. Difference from 1 to 2 was more significant - let's call it a rearrangement, while 2 to 3 was more like a refinement. I haven't tried other Dacs yet. I 'd like an upgrade but I haven't decided if I want to remain in that dac philosophy and upgrade to something beefy like an ANK Dac or following the R2r Hi-Fi fashion..

@m_sherzod Hearing is a matter of practicing and ears are pretty good instruments. If people are satisfied with WiiM as a dac so good for them (and WiiM ) - I also want to try a more recent DDC so I ordered Douk Audio XMOS XU208, while I was very close of getting SMSL, I've chosen Douk because of the DC input (getting also an ultra low noise supply).. (no snake oil there, clocks/oscillators/controllers are major components )

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Thanks. Contrary to many suggesting that you can't hear a difference between DACs, in my case I have seen a noticeable improvement with Geshelli J3 with Sparkos 2590 op amps. Also waiting for the SMSL PO100 Pro (snake oil ) DDC to add into the chain....

i hear a lot about the geshelli products, and i like their style. offering all the cistomisation so people can experiment and hear differences even between opamps is a big plus for the community. did you try any other opamps in it? also am curious how badly the j3 destroys other DACs you've come across？？

also keep us posted on how it goes with the DDC

 

[BowsAndArrows]

thanks guys for the replies, proves there's a strong community here

@BowsAndArrows - Hiface to my ears offers better flow -assuming because of its oscillators- The differences are not huge, and WiiM is not at any reason not good. Difference from 1 to 2 was more significant - let's call it a rearrangement, while 2 to 3 was more like a refinement. I haven't tried other Dacs yet. I 'd like an upgrade but I haven't decided if I want to remain in that dac philosophy and upgrade to something beefy like an ANK Dac or following the R2r Hi-Fi fashion..

@m_sherzod Hearing is a matter of practicing and ears are pretty good instruments. If people are satisfied with WiiM as a dac so good for them (and WiiM ) - I also want to try a more recent DDC so I ordered Douk Audio XMOS XU208, while I was very close of getting SMSL, I've chosen Douk because of the DC input (getting also an ultra low noise supply).. (no snake oil there, clocks/oscillators/controllers are major components )

at the moment i'm considering a geshelli j2s or a chord mojo 2. both very different but cool imo. prob don't need either, but that's how it goes sometimes

heard the original mojo in my active speaker setup and despite the speakers doing their own ADC then DSP before DAC to the amps, it sounded awesome. didn't have my wiim pro at the time to compare. but i've never actually used the analogue outputs yet

 

[m_sherzod]

i hear a lot about the geshelli products, and i like their style. offering all the cistomisation so people can experiment and hear differences even between opamps is a big plus for the community. did you try any other opamps in it? also am curious how badly the j3 destroys other DACs you've come across？？

also keep us posted on how it goes with the DDC

Hi, sorry for the late response. To be honest I straight installed the Sparkos 2590 Op Amp onto the RCA line out circuit even before trying the stock Texas Instruments Op Amp. ))) I have no prior experience with other external DACs (I am quite new into this hobby), but compared to the integrated DAC of the Wiim Ultra and my Bluesound Powernode I can definitely say that I like the sound way more. It literally makes me move and want to dance..)) Today have received my linear power supply and in a few days should receive the DDC, hope that will enhance the performance even further..)

 

[RAAM]

My Ultra is on the way, when I gets here and I have time to set it up, break it in, try a few things, I will then see how well I like my Topping V70 Velvet with it, if not super happy I am likely going to replace the V70 with the Geshelli J3s and then start op amp rolling, and DDC, that would be great fun!

No doubt the V70 will be a great deal better than the Ultra DAC, I hope I am satisfied with it but part of me wants a reason to play more with the J3s, etc......

Rick

 

[m_sherzod]

My Ultra is on the way, when I gets here and I have time to set it up, break it in, try a few things, I will then see how well I like my Topping V70 Velvet with it, if not super happy I am likely going to replace the V70 with the Geshelli J3s and then start op amp rolling, and DDC, that would be great fun!

No doubt the V70 will be a great deal better than the Ultra DAC, I hope I am satisfied with it but part of me wants a reason to play more with the J3s, etc......

Rick

Agree. This is also a fun process in its own right besides the pure sound aspects..))

 

[harkpabst]

No doubt the V70 will be a great deal better than the Ultra DAC ...

How could there be a doubt? Velvet!

 

[RAAM]

There is a huge amount of snake oil in the audio field but also merit in many upgrades, up to a point, then mostly they become just differences that some prefer over others, IMHO. If somebody wants to spend $20k on a DAC, go for it, keeps money in circulation, good thing for us all.

Actually it would be easier to not hear certain improvements, or sometimes just differences one might prefer, than be on the constant lookout for making things better but that is also part of the fun of the hobby.

Some are into it for the purest enjoyment of the music, some for the enjoyment of listening to the gear then others that are into it for both.

The scientific method when practiced properly actually points out we still know very little and those with open minds can learn something new to them, or us, not discovered since all things already exist in some form or another.

 

[harkpabst]

Not sure I understand how "I know beforehand and without even trying that an external DAC is a lot better than that in the Ultra" relates to "scientific method" and "open minds". Did I get you wrong?

 

[RAAM]

It is called experience in audio for many decades and being a very high level tech for 20 years observing things that measurements alone could not explain, talking about super critical military hardware level. Those things and experience in using different levels of quality gear in high end audio comp builds, listening tests, having my systems listened to and or judged by people like highly a respected recording engineer, a symphony conductor and the original founder and her son at the oldest high end audio store in the country.

Still the most important part in home or car audio is the install, space, treatments, etc...the gear is a distant second but still very important. That is why I did not spend huge money on home audio gear, always made my own cables, treatments, etc though I did one over the top car audio comp build which in today's dollars would be around $40k in just the gear and materials. After it was used for what I needed it for it was sold off to support my growing sound deadening business though the install was the same, $2k in gear and it was still dang fine and still very competitive. It was incredible at the time I had the high end system, most will never hear something like it and most home systems just are not going into a space setup as carefully as it was, over 1,000 hours invested in the project. All that, start the engine, no noise in the system but road noise, engine noise, still there.

When I owned and ran a multi million dollar business and could afford very high end audio gear for my house I had no more than $5k into my dang fine home system though I have heard one costing 10, 30, 30+ times as much that sounded like crap compared. Instead of on audio I was spending time on race car and street/track but also did a street/track/audio comp build, or two...

Just as in racing the cost for improvements is exponential, gains just stop being reasonable very quickly.

It is far more than just the measurements, always has been, always will be, circuit design, quality of critical parts in the circuit, implementation, etc....all add up.

Everybody is different, no two are alike, not just our original DNA is involved, study epigenetics and see how even our DNA evolves in our lifetime, constantly, none of us hear things exactly the same.

If one cannot hear such differences then it makes things easier for them to pick gear and be happy with it but it does not give them the right to claim others cannot hear it, they just do not know, simple as that.

All that said, I have a great deal of real world experience in how things work in this realm and yet there is far more to learn for all of us that choose to learn as we have open minds to what the possibilities are.

Those that choose to believe everything can be measured will find out eventually there will be more development in real science to prove what we know now is not everything. This is exciting to me, we get to learn more, for now, just enjoy the differences we all get to appreciate for what they are, to each of us.

Rick

 

[harkpabst]

I'll try it one more time: How do you know beforehand that your Topping V70 Velvet will be a great deal better than the Ultra DAC without even listening to it?

Everything else I could comment on I will keep to myself.

 

[RAAM]

Experience and I read and watch reviews, I know the DAC chip differences, the associated circuits, etc...not rocket science.....

I will of course take a good listen to both and if I am not correct I will say so, nothing to hide behind.

I am not going to go over your close to 4k posts here, better things to do, care to enlighten me on your qualifications to back up what you are saying, or not?

I have more I could say about my real world experiences, blind tests, etc....cannot go into detail about my years as a tech in the Military though, just have to leave as critical equipment where the specs and measurements just never mattered in the end, it was about how things sounded and this was gear far more advanced than a simple DAC.

Rick

 

[Zap Rekowski]

Oh, just realized at the end that I'm not in the “Misc hi fi related humour” thread. Sorry, gone again.

 

[harkpabst]

I will of course take a good listen to both and if I am not correct I will say so, nothing to hide behind.

Finally. At least now I know that the outcome is predictable, indeed.

I'm not interested in discussing my qualifications. Your postings to this thread look like a text book collection of rhetorical feints to me. I can neither verify nor falsify this conclusion but if I'm right I cannot win in this field, discussing in a language that is not my own, anyway.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

There is a huge amount of snake oil in the audio field but also merit in many upgrades, up to a point, then mostly they become just differences that some prefer over others, IMHO. If somebody wants to spend $20k on a DAC, go for it, keeps money in circulation, good thing for us all.

Actually it would be easier to not hear certain improvements, or sometimes just differences one might prefer, than be on the constant lookout for making things better but that is also part of the fun of the hobby.

Some are into it for the purest enjoyment of the music, some for the enjoyment of listening to the gear then others that are into it for both.

The scientific method when practiced properly actually points out we still know very little and those with open minds can learn something new to them, or us, not discovered since all things already exist in some form or another.

appreciate you sharing your experiences. and i agree with you about the limitations of our current measurements and even our general understanding of hearing and audio reproduction.