Setting us Wiim on an existing network with a headless server and ripped CD files

[mjm6]

Hi folks,

I have been using a Sonos system since about 2007 and while I have been happy with the setup, I feel it is probably time to replace all the audio parts as they are getting long in the tooth (I've had a few Sonos pieces fail on me in the past few years).

My current setup has a headless Mac Mini server that provides me with my files (for audio and other on-media needs) and on that, I have hard drives connected that are managed through the Mac Mini (some are set up in a RAID array). I do not have a NAS in the system.

With the Sonos, I am able to connect through the server to the music file location and the Sonos wil do the cataloging and manage the access to the files. That isn't a perfect approach, but it does work well and since I am more of an album listener, that approch is sufficient overall.

I also stream a local radio station and Pandora through the Sonos a lot. When doing this, we almost always are using it in multi-room mode with the synched audio.

What I and my wife like about the Sonos approach is that it is pretty simple and it has all of this in one location (Sonos app) so she doesn't need to fiddle with multiple devices or apps to get what she wants, and we have the audio synched across multiple sources so there isn't strange audio lag happening from room to room.

I'm trying to figure out if the Wiim devices basically allow us to do these several things, and what I would need to get this to work.

• Stream from Pandora and TuneIn FROM WITHIN THE WIIM APP (((I think this is possible... as I said, I want to only have a single app interface)))
• Stream files on the local server (FLAC files, some high definition files) (((this appears possible, but I need advice on what server software I need on the Mac Mini)))
• Stream in multi-room mode so that you don't hear mis-aligned audio in other places or when going from one room to the next.

Honestly, the only reason I have stuck with Sonos is that their interface is very simple and once set up, it seemingly works flawlessly. But I don't like how they abandoned older equipment and I feel their gear is 2x too expensive for the quality and market these days.

My plan would be to buy a few Wiim Amps and a Pro plus or two for the various rooms in the house as long as I can get suitable answers for my questions.

Thanks for any help/answers.


---Michael

 

[simbun]

I haven't used them personally but WiiM does offer both the Pandora and TuneIn services, so all you really need is to install MinimServer on your Mac Mini and you should be good to go!

If there is a weakness it's with the WiiM Home Apps local music browsing functionality, so that's definitely something to try out before the returns window ends.

 

[mjm6]

OK, thanks for that... I'm looking at the Minimserver and need to figure out what the two levels of the software provide... but I think the free version will allow me to determine that things are working properly. Do you feel there is a value to the paid version?

I'll get something up and running and then see what the other capabilities are.

One question I have is the indexing/cataloging in the Wiim Home App... if sounds like it is a bit less featured, but does it rely on the Minimserver cataloging functions to work or does it do its' own sorting and cataloging? This is one aspect of all of these media servers that always trips me up.

 

[ratty]

DLNA servers do their own indexing.
SMB/CIFS, as used by Sonos, is just a file access service so the players themselves must build the index.

 

[simbun]

The free version of MinimServer will give you the following indexes:
[n] albums
[n] items
[n] playlists
Artist
Date
Genre
All Artists
Composer
Recently Added
Recently Played
Audio Data
Audio Format
[folder view]

The indexing is all carried out by the server. The control point (the WiiM Home App in this case) is just a viewer onto your collection as defined by the server.

I have the licensed version of MinimServer but that's because I've taken the time to heavily customise my tags and the browsing experience. If you've been happy with Sonos then it's likely you'll be fine with the free version, but I'm happy to help you explore what's possible.

 

[simbun]

I've changed my mind
I don't like to suggest the paid version because a lot of people are really quite averse to spend money on software, but thinking more about it there are a number of very basic quality of life enhancements the licensed version gives you that I really couldn't live without.

I'll put a very basic profile up tomorrow for you to load into the trial version if you do decide to investigate further.

 

[castalla]

Check out Logitech Media Server. It's free. You can even use it with Sonos speakers.

 

[mjm6]

OK, that all sounds great, and I hope to learn a bit more as I move forward. I'm not adverse to buying the software at all, but I do have my doubts whether it will be all that useful beyond basic functionality. I think I mentioned I mostly listen to albums, so I'm not really jumping around in my music much and am not sorting it at all. It's really just to access the music I listen to as if it were a shelf full of CDs.

I do actually have a Sonos Move speaker, so being able to continue to use it would be great, so going the LMS approach may make sense...

Is there any way to integrate the Sonos Move in with the other streamers if I switch all the rest to Wiim devices? That would actually be awesone if that were still possible. We pull the Move outside when we are out there and it would be great to be able to still do that with some device.

 

[castalla]

I'm not sure but only LMS has the ability to incorporate sonos speakers. Maybe Roon does something similar but you have to pay a hefty subscription. Don't forget that you need to run media server software on a separate PC. If you use LMS then all the players (wiim, sonos) are available. You won't be able to get synchronised playback however.

Maybe minimserver might be a reasonable choice given your likely use. Good luck.

 

[castalla]

Roon does it all. And "hefty" is relative

Not quite... No podcasts, no BBC Sounds. No voice control. Sonos and LMS have much better access to streaming services.
Given the OP's likely use (playing music library) Roon would be a waste of money, imho.

 

[castalla]

Your choice, of course. I'm sticking with LMS - worth every non-euro, if you get my meaning!

The Wiim home music share is okay but I found it fiddly to set up - but that's dlna for you, a dog's breakfast.

 

[simbun]

OK, that all sounds great, and I hope to learn a bit more as I move forward. I'm not adverse to buying the software at all, but I do have my doubts whether it will be all that useful beyond basic functionality. I think I mentioned I mostly listen to albums, so I'm not really jumping around in my music much and am not sorting it at all. It's really just to access the music I listen to as if it were a shelf full of CDs.

The little touches I'm thinking of are just simple things like:

• When browsing an index - track artist for example - instead of just a long list that you need to scroll through, MinimServer can be configured to produce a subsetting A-Z index, but only if that list is greater than X (user configurable) items long.

I do have Sonos speakers but have been using them outside of the Sonos ecosystem for years now, but I'm pretty sure the free version will already surpass the Sonos offering.

If you do decide to give MinimServer a try create a new profile and use the following configuration to see some of what's possible. I've assumed just the core tags are populated, but with a rich set of metadata the possibilities are endless.

alphaGroup = AlbumArtist=150, All Artists=150
indexTags = AlbumArtist:Album Artist, All Artists:Track Artist, Date, Genre, *RecentAdded, *RecentPlayed, #AudioData, #AudioFormat
itemTags = TrackNumber
listViewAlbums = 50
tagFormat = Album.displayFormat={$Date^^ - ^$Album}, Title.displayFormat={$TrackNumber^^ - ^$Title}
tagOptions = Album.sortTags={+Date, Album}

I do actually have a Sonos Move speaker, so being able to continue to use it would be great, so going the LMS approach may make sense...

Any app that can talk to generic UPnP speakers is capable of controlling Sonos. The current WiiM app only controls WiiM devices but controlling UPnP speakers is on the roadmap.

 

[mjm6]

Thanks everyone for the comments and thougths.

I'm looking into LMS a little. I think it requires a seperate media server manager software package (the Material Skin) and I'm not clear how fiddly that will be for my needs. It may be really great, but I'm worried it will be a bit too fiddly for simple iPhone style interface that we want for the whole house management.

I downloaded minimserver (and realized that about 6 years ago I looked into this to replace the Sonos with Raspberry Pi's but gave that up because of the software and hardware limitations at that time). I feel that it will probably be fine as the server on the headless computer when using WMS as the main interface.

---Michael

 

[mjm6]

Any app that can talk to generic UPnP speakers is capable of controlling Sonos. The current WiiM app only controls WiiM devices but controlling UPnP speakers is on the roadmap.

This would be ideal and I think it would probbaly answer all my needs if it were to happen.

 

[castalla]

Material skin is a server plugin which gives a clean modern interface to the LMS system.
You access the server/players using a browser - so control is available from any devices which can run a browser.

Here's an example of the skin

 

[mjm6]

Material skin is a server plugin which gives a clean modern interface to the LMS system.
You access the server/players using a browser - so control is available from any devices which can run a browser.

Here's an example of the skin

View attachment 3862

I need to try to figure out how to make that happen as if it were an app on an iPhone... essentially start an instance of Chrome or Safari that goes directly to the correct location and basically doesn't allow you to accidentally leave that site, because I want to be able to hand the phone to someone who doesn't know the system and not have them get lost, if you know what I mean.

 

[Brantome]

I need to try to figure out how to make that happen as if it were an app on an iPhone... essentially start an instance of Chrome or Safari that goes directly to the correct location and basically doesn't allow you to accidentally leave that site, because I want to be able to hand the phone to someone who doesn't know the system and not have them get lost, if you know what I mean.

I have an icon to LMS on my iPad which points at the address of my LMS instance at 192.168.1.154:9000/material. To set that up, I navigated to that address in Safari then used “Add to Home Screen” to get the shortcut. Guess that then makes it look like an app that’s easy to find if other users inadvertently wander off the screen.

 

[jfbuk]

Using chrome on Android you can similarly save a url to your home screen.

 

[Brantome]

Using chrome on Android you can similarly save a url to your home screen.

Yip, I have it there too

 

[mjm6]

That's great (and I figured it wasn't too difficult to do this!).

I'll get a few pieces of Wiim gear and try it out in the house with both server approaches (minimserver and LMS and see what seems to feel best. If that all works, I'll get all the Sonos out of the house, and I won't be too sad to see it go. The products are good, but I don't like what the company did to long-term owners, nor do I feel they are providing the value that they used to in the early days.