Wiim Pro vs Plus subjective impressions - Sound Quality?

[Marcos Mazur]

A more subjective question, is the sound of the new internal dac of the wiim pro plus noticeably superior to the pro? Would it be a more neutral or warm sound? Who has tested it and how would you describe it? regarding the implementation and refinement of edges, details and precision, how would you describe it? I'm considering purchasing a Wiim Plus and using it with the internal DAC.
I saw that the measurements are as good as cheap dacs like topping e30, smsl su-1, etc

 

[Brantome]

I personally find it very different to tell the differences between DACs and probably fall into the camp that says they account for about 2% of your listening experience, being dwarfed by your room acoustics, speakers and amplifier…

 

[canard]

I personally find it very different to tell the differences between DACs and probably fall into the camp that says they account for about 2% of your listening experience, being dwarfed by your room acoustics, speakers and amplifier…

but does not prohibit, under constant conditions, trying to see, over time and especially on difficult-demanding music (generally acoustic) (and if in our listening habits, not for the occasion) if there are differences and especially if preferences "subjective" in use...
otherwise we are in the famous cognitive bias "asr mode"..
prohibiting "on principle" from hearing differences etc...
a terrible bias..hihi...
(but I'm serious because in the end we are there...)...
;-)

 

[Brantome]

but does not prohibit, under constant conditions, trying to see, over time and especially on difficult-demanding music (generally acoustic) (and if in our listening habits, not for the occasion) if there are differences and especially if preferences "subjective" in use...
otherwise we are in the famous cognitive bias "asr mode"..
prohibiting "on principle" from hearing differences etc...
a terrible bias..hihi...
(but I'm serious because in the end we are there...)...
;-)

I’d perhaps concede that over a long listening period, you might prefer the sound of one over another, but again personally I couldn‘t classify it in the terms mentioned. For me, if I find one less tiring to listen to after a period, then that to me is enough without having to define that in any more subjective terms like warmer, more detailed, wider, deeper etc etc

 

[canard]

I’d perhaps concede that over a long listening period, you might prefer the sound of one over another, but again personally I couldn‘t classify it in the terms mentioned. For me, if I find one less tiring to listen to after a period, then that to me is enough without having to define that in any more subjective terms like warmer, more detailed, wider, deeper etc etc

you are shy and too modest...could be just a lack of training etc ;-)
that's not really the question...not the obvious difficulties "to share", the term etc but the fact of not forbidding yourself from perceive differences preferences, things that you like or not...see forbidding others...
the "asr bias"
;-)

 

[steadyshot]

Comparatively to other steamers ( not pro ) you can find impressions here :

 

[Brown Sound]

Comparatively to other steamers ( not pro ) you can find impressions here :

Yep, I watched this yesterday, good content. I liked his reasoning for the sudden upgrades in the Blusound camp. Which was defending against the WiiM invasion, eh?

 

[steadyshot]

Yep, I watched this yesterday, good content. I liked his reasoning for the sudden upgrades in the Blusound camp. Which was defending against the WiiM invasion, eh?

yeah , but because I have listened to the previous bluesound node n130 the bass was not light as it is described for the plus

 

[Mr Ee]

A more subjective question, is the sound of the new internal dac of the wiim pro plus noticeably superior to the pro? Would it be a more neutral or warm sound? Who has tested it and how would you describe it? regarding the implementation and refinement of edges, details and precision, how would you describe it? I'm considering purchasing a Wiim Plus and using it with the internal DAC.
I saw that the measurements are as good as cheap dacs like topping e30, smsl su-1, etc

Just buy the plus

Edit - For what it's worth (not much, I'm sure), here're something I posted a while ago.

https://wiim.community.forum/threads/output-switching-loses-now-playing.798/post-9440

If the pro plus analog output is anything like the other dacs I've used then and since (most of them are in my signature), then imo it's a significant improvement over the pro.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

I’d perhaps concede that over a long listening period, you might prefer the sound of one over another, but again personally I couldn‘t classify it in the terms mentioned. For me, if I find one less tiring to listen to after a period, then that to me is enough without having to define that in any more subjective terms like warmer, more detailed, wider, deeper etc etc

Just buy the plus

Edit - For what it's worth (not much, I'm sure), here're something I posted a while ago.

https://wiim.community.forum/threads/output-switching-loses-now-playing.798/post-9440

If the pro plus analog output is anything like the other dacs I've used then and since (most of them are in my signature), then imo it's a significant improvement over the pro.

Thanks, you described better bass and impact, also more engaging and better treble in terms of definition and clarity, I just have one question if you can answer, the treble of the Wiim Plus being sharper makes it more ''harsh'' or ''thin' ' or ''bright'' compared to the treble of the Wiim mini and pro? I have a Wiim mini and I notice that the highs are more ''contained'' so to speak (but at the same time they are not very refined)

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Yep, I watched this yesterday, good content. I liked his reasoning for the sudden upgrades in the Blusound camp. Which was defending against the WiiM invasion, eh?

Thanks, I'll watch.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

Comparatively to other steamers ( not pro ) you can find impressions here :

Thanks, I'll watch.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

I’d perhaps concede that over a long listening period, you might prefer the sound of one over another, but again personally I couldn‘t classify it in the terms mentioned. For me, if I find one less tiring to listen to after a period, then that to me is enough without having to define that in any more subjective terms like warmer, more detailed, wider, deeper etc etc

Exactly, subjectively I think that ''listening fatigue'' says a lot about the quality of a dac, one of the most certain criteria that is not so tied to taste.
Most people feel discomfort in very exaggerated highs or mids, but current dacs are very good and even dacs with a bright touch can please even those who are more sensitive.

 

[Marcos Mazur]

but does not prohibit, under constant conditions, trying to see, over time and especially on difficult-demanding music (generally acoustic) (and if in our listening habits, not for the occasion) if there are differences and especially if preferences "subjective" in use...
otherwise we are in the famous cognitive bias "asr mode"..
prohibiting "on principle" from hearing differences etc...
a terrible bias..hihi...
(but I'm serious because in the end we are there...)...
;-)

Yes, new age music and acoustics are great for evaluating how ''tiring'' or ''refined'' a dac can be, as long as it is in the same box and amp by comparison.

 

[CrystalGipsy]

I can’t compare the two as only have a plus but can compare it to the inbuilt DAC of the amp it’s plugged into. my subjective opinion is the analogue stage is just ok and likely the weakest link in the device.

The. inbuilt dac of the amp it’s connected to isn’t a modern one and not SOTA in dac terms.I t’s an old Arcam AVR setup just for 2 Channel listening as my 2nd system. The amp is using Direct Mode for the Wiim input to avoid any extra ADC or DSP. DAC in amp is set to apply no eq or DSP.

On some music they seemed quite even and on others the amps inbuilt dac just sounded more balanced and a lot cleaner overall. The output stage on the plus seems to struggle when a lots going on in the music and overly compressed stuff comes across a lot harsher. I also found it gets a tad mushy in the low end when things get busy.

This is only my personal listening experience, take from it what you will. That said it has a lot going for it for the price and features you get. Looking forward to Roon Ready and them fixing PEQ, but state of the art audio reproduction it isn’t, what ever the measurements tell you. The DACs fine it’s just not using a top draw output stage which is more crucial than the DAC chip itself in my opinion, the implementation is what counts.

 

[Mr Ee]

Thanks, you described better bass and impact, also more engaging and better treble in terms of definition and clarity, I just have one question if you can answer, the treble of the Wiim Plus being sharper makes it more ''harsh'' or ''thin' ' or ''bright'' compared to the treble of the Wiim mini and pro? I have a Wiim mini and I notice that the highs are more ''contained'' so to speak (but at the same time they are not very refined)

My post was back in April, before the plus, so I was comparing the (normal) pro's analog output to my other dacs fed from the pro.
I think your description of not refined is pretty accurate, and I'd apply that description across the board.
For me, for the treble specifically, it wasn't that the other dacs made it brighter or thinner, but that the pro made it dull.

I know many use the word fatigue to describe not wanting to keep listening to something, which to me mostly means harsh treble.
I used the word engagement (or lack thereof) to describe the pro's analog output. It wasn't fatiguing, it was boring.

Essentially, if you intend to use the wiim's internal dac then I'd say just get the pro plus.

And, for an extra bit of contention, don't use the supplied analog cables
(No, please, no... No cable discussions!)

 

[onlyoneme]

And, for an extra bit of contention, don't use the supplied analog cables
(No, please, no... No cable discussions!)

Why not?

 

[waldo]

And, for an extra bit of contention, don't use the supplied analog cables
(No, please, no... No cable discussions!)

Now ya dunnit! What's wrong/lacking with the supplied RCA cables? Did you experience EMI issues with them? More than curious because I've been using them with the Pro.

 

[Mr Ee]

Now ya dunnit! What's wrong/lacking with the supplied RCA cables? Did you experience EMI issues with them? More than curious because I've been using them with the Pro.

I don't know what was "wrong" with them as such. I'd been listening to that particular dac / amp / speaker setup (with different interconnects) for a number of months then moved some hifi around and ran out of interconnects, so grabbed the ones from a pro's box.
It just sounded different / wrong / less enjoyable. Sort of muffled.
I went out and bought some new interconnects (approx A$100) and it was much better.
The ones I was using before were about £130 many, many years ago.

I know some people will say I'm imagining it. I'm fine with that.
I have some lowish, mid and reasonably high, by price, analog interconnects. I think the difference between really cheap interconnects and the lowish ones are quite pronounced. As for the difference from them to the mid and high priced ones... maybe that actually is just me wanting to hear it 'cos they cost more!

If you are interested, see if you can borrow some interconnects from a local dealer.
If you find ones you like more, great.
If not, no harm, no foul.

Part of the fun is trying something, then being able to pronounce it as snake oil

 

[Wiimer]

I think it's true that the cable that comes with the Wiim mini is by no means of high quality. When I connected it to the AVR, I heard a noticeable noise. Perhaps there is a variation in the quality of the plug.

By the way, did you know that Pro and Mini optical cables are not the same thing? The shape is a little different, and the Pro looks a little higher-quality.

I haven't seen the Pro Plus cable yet, what about it?