Adding delays for Stereo (Left/Right)

[holbob]

Would it be possible please to add individual delays for the left/right channels instead of just the channels summed together as is currently the case. The technology can (I assume) already do this as you can set a delay for just the subwoofer rca channel, it just needs adding in software individually for the mains. It's the only thing stopping me from buying an ultra for the lounge, as I need seperate delays for the mains due to a slightly unusually shaped room, meaning the right speaker is further away from the listening position. It only takes 0.42ms for the left delay for the stereo image to be locked in, but after using dirac on a minidsp for several years I am very sensitive to even a slight difference now.

Thank You for your help and for the best and most useful current hifi product on the market. Regards and Happy New Year!

 

[soundsgood]

Totally second this. I have a two seat listening position, one seat left and one seat right of centre; a single central seat desired for best imaging obviously. I bought the wiim ultra to use in place of my denon x3700h, however the adjustable speaker distances/delays mean i can dial in for the seat i usually sit in, and still get a better soundstage from the avr unfortunately. Would love to have this added; doesn't have to be automated or fancy, just a manually adjustable delay with ideally a 100th ms adjustment would be a game changer.

 

[soundsgood]

Totally second this. I have a two seat listening position, one seat left and one seat right of centre; a single central seat desired for best imaging obviously. I bought the wiim ultra to use in place of my denon x3700h, however the adjustable speaker distances/delays mean i can dial in for the seat i usually sit in, and still get a better soundstage from the avr unfortunately. Would love to have this added; doesn't have to be automated or fancy, just a manually adjustable delay with ideally a 100th ms adjustment would be a game changer.

Just an update in terms of utility/value of this.

I have been trialling roon, and it has the ability to enter distances for left and right channels in order to set delays. It is incredible how only a 1.05ms delay to the speaker nearest to me shifts the centre of the soundstage to between the speakers.

It so happens that the wiim ultra is being used as the room endpoint here, but given the cost of roon I may instead be looking to find an alternative setup that doesn't need this but still enables me to set the main speaker left and right delays independently. Untill I can get the wiim ultra to do this it just doesn't work for nearfield listening and where I have to sit off centre.

Fwiw, the volume adjustment/balance does very little to help. It makes things worse; it seems to smear the soundstage, like it's separating instruments across when they should be together.

I really hope this is something wiim might consider. Adding in another slider for delay of distance adjustment as a method of balance would add little to the app but massively improve the soundstage for the discerning listener forced off centre!

 

[Burnside]

Best way of getting WiiM to do this is to submit a feature request ticket via the more/feedback section in the app.

 

[canard]

14.5cm .... of gap
(/2...just 7cm)

 

[soundsgood]

14.5cm .... of gap
(/2...just 7cm)

Well, 36cm to be precise...that's where the 1.05ms comes from. Unless Roon's maths is off. I just took audesseys distance measurement, as the imaging from that was bang on.

Not sure the relevance of dividing by two. The centreline of each seat is 40cm from the centre of the speakers, and the speakers are 242 and 206 cm away from the off-centre mlp

 

[canard]

Well, 36cm to be precise...that's where the 1.05ms comes from. Unless Roon's maths is off. I just took audesseys distance measurement, as the imaging from that was bang on.

Not sure the relevance of dividing by two. The centreline of each seat is 40cm from the centre of the speakers, and the speakers are 242 and 206 cm away from the off-centre mlp

"It only takes 0.42ms for the left delay for the stereo image to be locked in, but after using dirac on a minidsp for several years I am very sensitive to even a slight difference now."
not your thread
0.42ms (34,4*0.42...14.5)
/2 if you can move one forward and the other back
...

34.4*1.05... 36cm

your speakers are built "perfect phase"...? otherwise really put it into perspective a little more...
(deserves to be measured first...)

 

[soundsgood]

"It only takes 0.42ms for the left delay for the stereo image to be locked in, but after using dirac on a minidsp for several years I am very sensitive to even a slight difference now."
not your thread
0.42ms (34,4*0.42...14.5)
/2 if you can move one forward and the other back
...

34.4*1.05... 36cm

your speakers are built "perfect phase"...? otherwise really put it into perspective a little more...
(deserves to be measured first...)

Sorry, you're going to have to elaborate. Not following you.

The qouted text isn't me though, no, if that's what you were referring to. I'm using 1.05ms of delay on the right speaker, to account for being off centre by about 40cm and closer to the right speaker. The speakers are quite near a wall and I don't have the luxury of moving one forwards and one back; let alone then adjusting for sbir and room mode issues I've finally got a handle on.

Been listening tonight and super happy with the sound via the delay in Roon. Will be experimenting with Roons other filters too, rather than potentially the peqs in the wiim. The wiim filters and sub xo's seem to do slightly weird things I can't work out yet. I've had much better luck integrating my subs with my mains using my avr than I am with the other setup that uses the wiim ultra currently.

 

[spoidyjan]

I think having separate delay settings for the left and right speakers on the WiiM Ultra would be very helpful. In rooms where the setup isn’t perfect, even small changes in delay can make a big difference in sound quality. I’ve tried this with tools like Roon, and it works great. It would be amazing if WiiM could add this feature in the future.

 

[canard]

Sorry, you're going to have to elaborate. Not following you.

The qouted text isn't me though, no, if that's what you were referring to. I'm using 1.05ms of delay on the right speaker, to account for being off centre by about 40cm and closer to the right speaker. The speakers are quite near a wall and I don't have the luxury of moving one forwards and one back; let alone then adjusting for sbir and room mode issues I've finally got a handle on.

Been listening tonight and super happy with the sound via the delay in Roon. Will be experimenting with Roons other filters too, rather than potentially the peqs in the wiim. The wiim filters and sub xo's seem to do slightly weird things I can't work out yet. I've had much better luck integrating my subs with my mains using my avr than I am with the other setup that uses the wiim ultra currently.

I have no position on this... I was just pointing out the approaches to achieve the orders of magnitude in distance in relation to ms... and why not if the function can exist..
(however I invite you to observe and measure the orders of magnitude of the delays, using rew for example and the group delay function at the listening points even when "adjusted" like this...in particular below 500hz etc.. etc. it's interesting ;-) )

 

[soundsgood]

I have no position on this... I was just pointing out the approaches to achieve the orders of magnitude in distance in relation to ms... and why not if the function can exist..
(however I invite you to observe and measure the orders of magnitude of the delays, using rew for example and the group delay function at the listening points even when "adjusted" like this...in particular below 500hz etc.. etc. it's interesting ;-) )

Indeed; the significant differences in the lower frequencies (even with delays at a "good" 2 x cycles) is much more difficult and far less audible, if at all. I was quite amazed however at how placement of snare drums and the like moved around with the different intented speaker delays.