Bluetooth LDAC codec support

[Yoku-San]

I know this has been requested already multiple times for the other WiiM devices.

Please @WiiM Team can you elucidate why LDAC has not yet been implemented in any WiiM Device and if LDAC integration is planned for the future or not!

 

[Zap Rekowski]

I answered a comment about why people would use bluetooth to cast to the Wiim, not what codec would be used

...but there was already talk of an iphone, wasn't there?
Anyway, I didn't read through everything - in the end the headline is about LDAC, so it's probably gone in a different direction here.

As I don't use Bluetooth in conjunction with WiiM (except for the remote control), I'm keeping mine out of this discussion now

 

[Bucksbunny]

Is it not the case that the lack of airplay leaves iphone users using bluetooth? Also some mp3 players support bt?

But that is only the case of you want to cast songs from your tidal app on your phone directly to the Wiim right? You can use the native player on the app by using the Wiim app right?

 

[Ronnie D]

But that is only the case of you want to cast songs from your tidal app on your phone directly to the Wiim right? You can use the native player on the app by using the Wiim app right?

It was more for iphone users that would use airplay for apple music. The ultra and the amp pro don't have airplay so you would have to use bt.

 

[Bucksbunny]

It was more for iphone users that would use airplay for apple music. The ultra and the amp pro don't have airplay so you would have to use bt.

Ah, ok. So buy a streamer that supports your favorite Music Service

 

[Ronnie D]

Ah, ok. So buy a streamer that supports your favorite Music Service

I think part of the issue was on the ultra. When it was first advertised it specified that it supported airplay 2. Then it changed and I think some people were caught out by the change. I think some returned the Ultra, some kept them hoping that they would get airplay support. Others as far as I have read changed their music provider
,

 

[Bucksbunny]

I think part of the issue was on the ultra. When it was first advertised it specified that it supported airplay 2. Then it changed and I think some people were caught out by the change. I think some returned the Ultra, some kept them hoping that they would get airplay support. Others as far as I have read changed their music provider
,

Aha, thats annoying indeed. Was not aware of that.

 

[jfbuk]

Is it not the case that apple does not support LDAC at all with regard to the Bluetooth codec, only AAC?

AFAIK all Apple devices with Bluetooth must support SBC as well as AAC.
SBC support is mandated across the Bluetooth Core Specifications

 

[Bucksbunny]

Perhaps it is a good idea to put a little more detailed description in the OP stating that the request is NOT for Ldac support streaming TOWARDS the Wiim, but for Ldac support for people who want to enjoy the Wiim on their headphones with Ldac (HiRes codec) support as this is marketed as a HiRes Music Streamer.

 

[Burnside]

What I still can not figure out is the use case where you would want to buy a Wiim, that streams all major music services, and then use it to stream stuff via Bluetooth from your phone to the Wiim so that you can send content from your phone via your Wiim to your amplifier. It just does not make sense to me.

Say you use Apple Music, a WiiM Ultra which doesn’t support airplay, and an amp that doesn’t support Bluetooth, so you Bluetooth from your phone to your Ultra.

 

[Bucksbunny]

Say you use Apple Music, a WiiM Ultra which doesn’t support airplay, and an amp that doesn’t support Bluetooth, so you Bluetooth from your phone to your Ultra.

Yes, I concluded that too, but that would seem like a real accidental and very small part of the users where there are far better solutions for the issue right?

 

[Burnside]

Yes, I concluded that too, but that would seem like a real accidental and very small part of the users where there are far better solutions for the issue right?

I don’t think so. What about services that aren’t included in the WiiM Home app such as those mentioned in feature requests - should they be denied access to the route I mention? They may actually not be hi res services (like an app for local radio services that again aren’t hosted on vTuner or TuneIn) so Bluetooth is sufficient. I’m not saying people have bought an Ultra just to listen to that service thru their amp, but they may have such a requirement alongside their use of a hi res service like Qobuz that the Ultra does support.

 

[Yoku-San]

Perhaps it is a good idea to put a little more detailed description in the OP stating that the request is NOT for Ldac support streaming TOWARDS the Wiim, but for Ldac support for people who want to enjoy the Wiim on their headphones with Ldac (HiRes codec) support as this is marketed as a HiRes Music Streamer.

It's not possible anymore to edit the OP.

 

[Yoku-San]

@WiiM Team Dear Wiim, can you please answer the question when you want to implement LDAC encoding to use it with LDAC-compatible Headphones?

Of note: The encoding part of LDAC is actually free and open source, it's the decoding part Sony charge a license for (Decoding would happen by the headphone, so no fee for WiiM when just doing encoding).

 

[pieterv1]

@WiiM Team Dear Wiim, can you please answer the question when you want to implement LDAC encoding to use it with LDAC-compatible Headphones?

Of note: The encoding part of LDAC is actually free and open source, it's the decoding part Sony charge a license for (Decoding would happen by the headphone, so no fee for WiiM when just doing encoding).

How do you mean "when"? This was never announced and the on-board LinkPlay streaming boards of the Ultra and Pro don't support this.

If you really can't live without LDAC at home (I'm still wondering why), you can connect a USB Bluetooth transmitter like a FiiO BTA30.

 

[wiimamp user]

What I still can not figure out is the use case where you would want to buy a Wiim, that streams all major music services, and then use it to stream stuff via Bluetooth from your phone to the Wiim so that you can send content from your phone via your Wiim to your amplifier. It just does not make sense to me.

Yes that's a good question.
I assume better hardware on the transmitting Bluetooth side doesn't count with Bluetooth codecs?
I'm asking because a noob on this matter..
Quality difference could maybe come from the headphones itself? ( Dac,Drivers)
Because the amp or any Bluetooth transmitter only transmits the signal,codec( be it sbc,aac,aptx,aptxhd or ldac)and the whole dac processing lies within the headphones then?


Or is there a difference in sound quality according Bluetooth transmitters? Better hardware,better sound quality for instance?

An example: Is there a difference between transmitting a Bluetooth codec from a cheaper transmitter( lets say 25,30 Euros )or a shanling up5...or a smartphone who's focus is on delivering better a audio experience? For instance a Moondrop MIAd01
It there a really a big difference ? So then hen you maybe can conclude to use you're phone for , better, codecs or invest in a external Transmitter..
Because ldac,aptx stays the same no matter what transmitter you are using ( cheap or expensive, phone or excellent amp transmitting Bluetooth)??
Difference comes within the hardware of the headphones?
Don't know.. that why as a noob on this subject I'm asking..

 

[jfbuk]

Yes that's a good question.
I assume better hardware on the transmitting Bluetooth side doesn't count with Bluetooth codecs?
I'm asking because a noob on this matter..
Quality difference could maybe come from the headphones itself? ( Dac,Drivers)
Because the amp or any Bluetooth transmitter only transmits the signal,codec( be it sbc,aac,aptx,aptxhd or ldac)and the whole dac processing lies within the headphones then?


Or is there a difference in sound quality according Bluetooth transmitters? Better hardware,better sound quality for instance?

An example: Is there a difference between transmitting a Bluetooth codec from a cheaper transmitter( lets say 25,30 Euros )or a shanling up5...or a smartphone who's focus is on delivering better a audio experience? For instance a Moondrop MIAd01
It there a really a big difference ? So then hen you maybe can conclude to use you're phone for , better, codecs or invest in a external Transmitter..
Because ldac,aptx stays the same no matter what transmitter you are using ( cheap or expensive, phone or excellent amp transmitting Bluetooth)??
Difference comes within the hardware of the headphones?
Don't know.. that why as a noob on this subject I'm asking..

AFAIK -
A Bluetooth transmitter inputs a PCM signal and applies the appropriate Bluetooth Codec (SBC, LDAC, etc) which compresses the digital stream.
It then transmits the compressed stream to its paired receiver
The compression loses some audio data to minimise needed bandwidth.
LDAC is promoted as superior to SBC because it is a higher bandwith connection and thus has the potential to be less lossy.
The Bluetooth receiver reverses the compression and then passes the restored (lossy) PCM stream to a DAC which then delivers the analogue audio.
The DAC can be part of the Bluetooth receiver or external if the receiver has a digital output.
The Bluetooth transmitter & receiver have to conform to the Bluetooth standards so in terms what they do, they have to do the same things to the audio stream regardless, but like with all things some implementations may be more efficient in varying ways - processing speed , range (transmission power), latency etc.
More important maybe the quality of the original audio stream, any ADC involved in converting an original analogue source to PCM, and the endpoint DAC.
All of those can cause endless debate on this forum and other forums

 

[wiimamp user]

@jfbuk Thank you for explaining. Highly appreciated

 

[Yoku-San]

on-board LinkPlay streaming boards

OK, thanks for the info. I was not aware of this and thought that it could be solved via software.

But that could have been answered by WiiM already months ago. Bit disappointed that you have to inform us instead of them.

 

[s3igell]

OK, thanks for the info. I was not aware of this and thought that it could be solved via software.

But that could have been answered by WiiM already months ago. Bit disappointed that you have to inform us instead of them.

Remember: WiiM operates this Forum as a WiiM Community Service, not as the Company's Marketing or Technical Support System. There are very few actual WiiM Employees active on this Forum, and those that are surely have constraints placed on them by LinkPlay/WiiM.

 

[wiimamp user]

OK, thanks for the info. I was not aware of this and thought that it could be solved via software.

But that could have been answered by WiiM already months ago. Bit disappointed that you have to inform us instead of them.

Maybe of you asked it through the app you would have your answer sooner.
But ok if one wants to listen via ldac you could choose your phone or a bluetooth transmitter.