hgo58
Major Contributor
No. Sorry. I have a hard time with understanding what you write.
I know what DRC is but cannot see the relevance for measuring the dBFS.
Broken VU output amplitude after update
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I know what DRC is but cannot see the relevance for measuring the dBFS.
slartibartfast
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That came from the Wikipedia article
Look for the discussions from a few months ago about this DRC... which were swept under the rug but which render your rigorous considerations regarding the VU meter obsolete... and which actually had a heavy impact in many sensitive subjects here .. never addressed... a very clumsy Wiim workaround...
slartibartfast
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You still want to know the peak level regardless of DRC. What profound impact are you talking about?
slartibartfast
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Are you talking about the limiting that WiiM use to prevent clipping? Yes I can see that would complicate things.
hgo58
Major Contributor
Before, of course.
Do the compression even happen on the digital outputs? Or only before the DAC?
hgo58
Major Contributor
And is explained hereThat came from the Wikipedia article
In this context only relevant for recording, not playback.
I'll let you investigate... ;-)
But realizing the impact on the rest of the circumstances used on different Wiim systems (not only ultra -vumetre) remains quite essential, it seems to me...
;-)
hgo58
Major Contributor
So you think WiiM is using DRC in other cases than to avoid clipping in the DAC after applying gain in the EQ settings?
We need to have that confirmed by the @WiiM Team .
slartibartfast
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It is documented here
A happy Wiim Pro owner here. Having the Wiim volume set to fixed I have been somewhat reluctant to use the EQ though.
In this and other threads on this forum regarding EQ, the consensus seems to be that that clipping can/will occur in a situation like mine: having fixed volume (or at 100 %) and using positive gain in the EQ.
Wiim though, states the following:
https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support...ow-to-use-parametric-eq-a-comprehensive-guide
Is it unnecessary to decrease the volume or having digital headroom when applying positive EQ...
In this and other threads on this forum regarding EQ, the consensus seems to be that that clipping can/will occur in a situation like mine: having fixed volume (or at 100 %) and using positive gain in the EQ.
Wiim though, states the following:
https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support...ow-to-use-parametric-eq-a-comprehensive-guide
Is it unnecessary to decrease the volume or having digital headroom when applying positive EQ...
hgo58
Major Contributor
If the WiiM algoritme always reduce any applied gain then we don't need a clipping indicator but it would still be good to have an real indication of how close the signal level is to 0 dBFS.It is documented here
A happy Wiim Pro owner here. Having the Wiim volume set to fixed I have been somewhat reluctant to use the EQ though.
In this and other threads on this forum regarding EQ, the consensus seems to be that that clipping can/will occur in a situation like mine: having fixed volume (or at 100 %) and using positive gain in the EQ.
Wiim though, states the following:
https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support...ow-to-use-parametric-eq-a-comprehensive-guide
Is it unnecessary to decrease the volume or having digital headroom when applying positive EQ...
On input it will show the dynamic range of the source and on output we could see if this "advanced algorithm" is about to getting applied.
I just did a few VU-meter tests myself:
Regarding DRC, IMHO @canard is implying that the story is more complicated than it really is.
According to my tests, WiiM only apply DRC/limiting when the output of the device would be pushed over 0dBFS in digital domain, to avoid hard clipping.
DRC seems to be triggered only when output volume is at (or close to) 100%, combined with some kind of digital boost (either pre-gain, EQ or RoomFit) and when playing back content with peaks close to 0dBFS. I.e. even with boosts in the flow DRC won't be triggered if volume isn't high enough to end up above 0dBFS at DA conversion (or digital output).
For sure DRC/limiting is much more gentle to the ear compared to digital clipping, so I personally find this limiter to be a smart safeguard, useful for casual users who might not know how to achieve optimal gain staging.
- VU meter "Original Signal" setting
- With -14dBFS RMS / -11dBFS peak 1kHz sine the VU meter shows about -11dB
- With -14dBFS RMS / -8.5dBFS peak pink noise the VU meter shows about -6dB
- With either input signal VU meter level doesn't change when I enable EQ or RoomFit with +6dB boost at 1kHz, nor when I added +7dB of pre-gain boost to the input, or changed output level.
- VU meter "Output Amplitude" setting
- Pink noise and 1kHz tone with the same -14dBFS RMS level result in different VU meter readings (i.e. like above).
- VU meter level is affected by input pre-gain, output level, EQ and RoomFit.
Regarding DRC, IMHO @canard is implying that the story is more complicated than it really is.
According to my tests, WiiM only apply DRC/limiting when the output of the device would be pushed over 0dBFS in digital domain, to avoid hard clipping.
DRC seems to be triggered only when output volume is at (or close to) 100%, combined with some kind of digital boost (either pre-gain, EQ or RoomFit) and when playing back content with peaks close to 0dBFS. I.e. even with boosts in the flow DRC won't be triggered if volume isn't high enough to end up above 0dBFS at DA conversion (or digital output).
For sure DRC/limiting is much more gentle to the ear compared to digital clipping, so I personally find this limiter to be a smart safeguard, useful for casual users who might not know how to achieve optimal gain staging.
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