Can Wiim Ultra wake up KEF LS50 Wireless II via Spotify Connect?

[ryry]

Before getting the Wiim Ultra, I used to use Spotify Connect on iOS to stream directly to my KEF LS50 Wireless II speakers. When I would select the LS50s as the playback device in Spotify Connect, they would power on automatically and were fully ready by the time the music began, which was seamless and convenient. (The streaming performance itself was woeful however, which is one of the reasons I'm trying out the Ultra)

I’ve since integrated the Wiim Ultra into my setup. I’m using the Wiim Ultra as the playback device in Spotify Connect, connected to the LS50s via optical. I have set the LS50’s “second wake-up source” to Optical, so the speakers automatically power on when they detect an optical audio signal.

However, when first selecting the Wiim Ultra in Spotify Connect, no audio signal is immediately sent to the LS50s. The LS50s only begin powering up when the song itself starts playing, leading to a delay that causes the first few seconds of the track to be cut off (except for sub frequencies which are being sent directly to my sub from the Ultra). Unlike the direct Spotify-to-LS50 setup, this method lacks the one-tap convenience, as I now need to either turn on the LS50s manually beforehand or tolerate the playback delay.

Can anyone think of a way to solve this? Could the developers potentially send out a brief, sub-audible trigger signal for a few seconds when the Ultra is first selected as the playback device in Spotify Connect? This pulse would prompt the LS50s to power on immediately, ensuring they’re fully active by the time Spotify audio playback starts.

Open to any other suggestions!

 

[Burnside]

I know it’s not one touch, but could you set up a Spotify playlist just containing a silent track and set that up as a preset in the WiiM Home app, then either using the WiiM remote or app, fire off that preset to waken your speakers before playing what you want from Spotify?

See https://faq.wiimhome.com/en/support/solutions/articles/72000578863-save-spotify-playlist-as-a-preset for setting up the playlist, and this link for a selection of silent tracks https://community.spotify.com/t5/Content-Questions/Silent-track/td-p/4548636

 

[ryry]

Thanks. Yeah there’s a few ways I could fairly quickly turn on the speakers, like the KEF remote, iPhone app, etc.

It’s more just the convenience in a situation like walking in the front door with my phone in my hand and being able to just open Spotify or Tidal, hit play on an album and only having to select the WiiM in Connect and have music start playing with no other action required.

Spotify Connect actually prompts you to select the Ultra when you open the iOS app before you even decide what music to play, which is great, except I would still need to take some other action to then turn the KEFs on, which wasn’t the case when streaming directly via the KEFs.

 

[Burnside]

Yeah, appreciate that. Maybe drop WiiM a line via the feedback section in the WiiM Home app and ask them directly as they’ll maybe add it to their development queue if it’s feasible to do it.

 

[jdh]

Isn't it the case that the Ultra needs to be woken first rather than the KEFs?

 

[ryry]

Isn't it the case that the Ultra needs to be woken first rather than the KEFs?

I’m not exactly sure. The Ultra can always be seen in the list of network devices in Spotify Connect even after going into standby. But selecting the WiiM in Spotify Connect doesn’t trigger a power-on state for the KEFs, it seems like only an audio signal being sent to them does. Which results in the delay I’ve outlined above.

 

[Wiimer]

I’m not exactly sure. The Ultra can always be seen in the list of network devices in Spotify Connect even after going into standby. But selecting the WiiM in Spotify Connect doesn’t trigger a power-on state for the KEFs, it seems like only an audio signal being sent to them does. Which results in the delay I’ve outlined above.

If you want to complete the operation on the Spotify app, I think there is a way to first connect to LS50 with Spotify connect and then switch to Ultra.

This will still be more work, but I believe the easiest way so far.

Btw, what model is your phone?

For iOS or Galaxy, you may be able to automate a series of operations with the Routine feature. (But may not be able to do this..)

 

[slartibartfast]

I’m not exactly sure. The Ultra can always be seen in the list of network devices in Spotify Connect even after going into standby. But selecting the WiiM in Spotify Connect doesn’t trigger a power-on state for the KEFs, it seems like only an audio signal being sent to them does. Which results in the delay I’ve outlined above.

The manual for the LS50 does say that

"14.7.2 Power Saver – Second Wake-Up Source This setting enables a second source to automatically turn on the speakers when there is audio input from the selected source."

So it would be interesting to see if a silent track works.

 

[ryry]

If you want to complete the operation on the Spotify app, I think there is a way to first connect to LS50 with Spotify connect and then switch to Ultra.

This will still be more work, but I believe the easiest way so far.

Btw, what model is your phone?

For iOS or Galaxy, you may be able to automate a series of operations with the Routine feature. (But may not be able to do this..)

That would kind of work, but currently Spotify automatically suggests connecting to the Ultra when opening Spotify even when the Ultra is in standby (see pic below, Lounge Hi-Fi is the name of my Ultra). So I would need to dismiss the automatic suggestion, open the Spotify Connect menu to connect to the KEFs, then go back to re-select the Ultra…



I’ve got an iPhone 15 Pro, there may be a way to do something with Shortcuts. KEF does have an API for the LS50s, and some sort of smart home capabilities that allow powering on. But if WiiM could bake in some kind of trigger, that would be ideal so that we can take advantage of Spotify Connect automatically detecting and suggesting the Ultra.

 

[jdh]

I see that on both my Mini & Pro, when either is selected in the Spotify app, the Green LED briefly illuminates but doesn't bring the devices out of Standby Mode. Obviously there's an initial communication happening so linking it to your suggestion of some kind of sub-audible trigger from the optical output (or the last selected output) makes a lot of sense.

 

[ryry]

The issue actually extends beyond Spotify Connect. For example, when initiating Google Cast to send a YouTube video from the iOS app to LG CX TV, the TV wakes up automatically, opens the YouTube app and begins playing the video. But again, the speakers are only prompted to wake up when the first audio signal is sent. Same result, the first few seconds of audio are missed.

I wonder if the Ultra could send a trigger to the speakers to power them on whenever it is brought out of standby.

 

[harkpabst]

Following up on this hint ...

"14.7.2 Power Saver – Second Wake-Up Source This setting enables a second source to automatically turn on the speakers when there is audio input from the selected source."

So it would be interesting to see if a silent track works.

... the problem probably lies straight in here:

... some kind of sub-audible trigger from the optical output ...

Auto input sensing can be a touchy thing on its own. Especially night time listeners and lovers of classical works often complain about some devices going into standby mode during passages of silent music. It's probably easier to do in the digital domain (optical input) but still that "trigger signal" might be noticeable with some devices and rather not with others.

The time to weak up is probably different from device to device so there would have to be a general on/off option and then a time delay option and possible an option to change the length and/or level and/or frequency of that trigger signal to make it work with other audio systems.

It might be doable. Smart home integration still sound like a cleaner solution to me.

NB: I'm not using any smart home technology at all.

 

[ryry]

I have found a bit of a workaround via the WiiM Home app rather than going to Spotify or Tidal to initiate streaming playback.

I have multiple devices (PS5, Mac Mini, Chromecast) plugged into my TV, and then HDMI eARC out to the WiiM.

If I select the TV input via the WiiM Home app and hit play the KEFs immediately power on. Which is interesting because this works even if there’s not any audio available to play from the devices connected to the TV input.

So I can basically hit play and then select the song or album I want in Spotify / Tidal via the WiiM Home app and everything will be ready to go. It’s a bit of a pain if the WiiM isn’t already on the TV input though. And unfortunately the same workaround doesn’t work on the Wi-Fi input.

Trying to work out if I can map the above TV input workaround to a preset or automation of some kind.

 

[Wiimer]

I have found a bit of a workaround via the WiiM Home app rather than going to Spotify or Tidal to initiate streaming playback.

I have multiple devices (PS5, Mac Mini, Chromecast) plugged into my TV, and then HDMI eARC out to the WiiM.

If I select the TV input via the WiiM Home app and hit play the KEFs immediately power on. Which is interesting because this works even if there’s not any audio available to play from the devices connected to the TV input.

So I can basically hit play and then select the song or album I want in Spotify / Tidal via the WiiM Home app and everything will be ready to go. It’s a bit of a pain if the WiiM isn’t already on the TV input though. And unfortunately the same workaround doesn’t work on the Wi-Fi input.

Trying to work out if I can map the above TV input workaround to a preset or automation of some kind.

You may be able to automate (or semi-automate) the process by setting the WiiM HTTP api as a shortcut function on your iPhone.

 

[ryry]

You may be able to automate (or semi-automate) the process by setting the WiiM HTTP api as a shortcut function on your iPhone.

Thanks! This prompted me to do some research into the API and I found this very helpful post where @aux had provided some scripts and iOS Shortcuts to control Wiim devices.

It took a bit of tinkering with his scripts and Shortcuts, and a few janky dead ends trying to do stuff like trigger silent tracks, but in the end the solution was right in front of me, and like many good solutions it was a happy accident. While tinkering I accidentally pressed the phono input on the Wiim, and of course the speakers powered on due to the low level of ever-present noise from the turntable needle.

From there I modified aux's Shortcuts and created one that changes the Ultra to the phono input, waits for 1 second and then switches back to the Wi-Fi input. One second of sub-audible turntable noise is enough to trigger the speakers to turn on. I've also managed to map this shortcut to the action button on the side of my iPhone. So I now have a dedicated KEF LS50 power button on the side of my phone, as well as a Shortcut in my iPhone dock, and I'm confident I'll be able to set up a Siri trigger as well.

I can write up a full walk-through if anyone else is interested in the details. For now I'm satisfied with being able to power on my KEFs with a single button press from my phone no matter what app I'm in.

 

[Wiimer]

Thanks! This prompted me to do some research into the API and I found this very helpful post where @aux had provided some scripts and iOS Shortcuts to control Wiim devices.

It took a bit of tinkering with his scripts and Shortcuts, and a few janky dead ends trying to do stuff like trigger silent tracks, but in the end the solution was right in front of me, and like many good solutions it was a happy accident. While tinkering I accidentally pressed the phono input on the Wiim, and of course the speakers powered on due to the low level of ever-present noise from the turntable needle.

From there I modified aux's Shortcuts and created one that changes the Ultra to the phono input, waits for 1 second and then switches back to the Wi-Fi input. One second of sub-audible turntable noise is enough to trigger the speakers to turn on. I've also managed to map this shortcut to the action button on the side of my iPhone. So I now have a dedicated KEF LS50 power button on the side of my phone, as well as a Shortcut in my iPhone dock, and I'm confident I'll be able to set up a Siri trigger as well.

I'm glad you found a solution.

If you are interested, I believe it is possible to include preset playback in the shortcut and also auto-connect Spotify connect. I am an Android user so I used the Macrodroid app to place the preset button shortcut icons on my home screen.


With a Spotify favorite playlist registered in Preset (1), simply press the icon to complete the connection and play it on any WiiM device.

Honestly, I just recently started doing this, and here's a post by @ddetton and @cc_rider that I found helpful.

Recall Presets using the Wiim API

I was able to get the basic transport controls working using the Wiim API document. The next thing I looked for was how to recall a preset using the api but I didn't see it. Is there a way to recall a preset using the api or is the document posted comprehensive? Is there any other way to do this?

forum.wiimhome.com

I can write up a full walk-through if anyone else is interested in the details.

Yes, I am sure it will be useful to someone.