DSD passthrough to a DSD-capable DAC

[daydreamer]

For any who may be interested in DSD playback through the WiiM, I found this to be possible as follows:

1. You will need a DAC connected via coax or Toslink that supports DoP64 decoding (some only support this via USB)
2. Volume needs to be fixed at 100%, all internal EQ must be disabled and Fade-in/Fade-out effect disabled
3. In MinimServer's MinimStreamer configuration page enable transcoding of DSF file to Dop-encoded by adding "dsf:dopwav" to the steam:transcode box, OR
4. If using Lyrion Music Server (LMS), Enable DSD-over-PCM in Extra Player Settings/DSDPlayer and set volume to fixed at 100%.

In this mode, WiiM thinks it is playing a PCM file, but the encoding is not PCM, it is DSD. As long as the processing inside the WiiM is bit perfect (no EQ or volume control allowed), this is all you need.

I make no claims as to whether the sonic differences are worth it, but if you happen to have DSD files in your collection, and a DAC that is suitable (see #1 above) you might want to try this approach and judge for yourself.

Charles.

 

[deaste]

I've got a few DSD files (with DFF and DSF extension).
Using LMS with the DSD player plugin enabled, my Pro Plus plays them without external DAC.
During playing I see 1 bit, 2822.4 kHz both in the LMS interface and the Wiim app.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

I've got a few DSD files (with DFF and DSF extension).
Using LMS with the DSD player plugin enabled, my Pro Plus plays them without external DAC.
During playing I see 1 bit, 2822.4 kHz both in the LMS interface and the Wiim app.

Yes, that makes sense.

I can get the same from my external DAC by enabling DSD-over-PCM (DOP) in the LMS DSD Player plugin, as well as disabling EQ, volume, and fade in the Wiim to preserve the format for pass through to my DAC as per daydreamer's intructions.

Personally I don't see the point of DSD now, other than the novelty, and am more than happy with my redbook 16 bit 44.1kHz FLAC library.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

Yes, that makes sense.

I have just done some testing and it looks like in your case the LMS plugin is actually doing the PCM conversion for you, your Wiim is then just playing boring old PCM, albeit in 1 bit format.

If I enable DOP in the LMS player settings the Wiim has no idea what it is playing and just shows "squeezelite".
If I leave DOP disabled (the default) to enable PCM conversion, Wiim sees the 1 bit PCM along with the track info.

I was pretty sure that Wiim had no DSD support.
If I was designing a streamer or DAC (if I had any idea how to) I wouldn't bother either.

 

[Balthazar B]

I have just done some testing and it looks like in your case the LMS plugin is actually doing the PCM conversion for you, your Wiim is then just playing boring old PCM, albeit in 1 bit format.

If I enable DOP in the LMS player settings the Wiim has no idea what it is playing and just shows "squeezelite".
If I leave DOP disabled (the default) to enable PCM conversion, Wiim sees the 1 bit PCM along with the track info.

I was pretty sure that Wiim had no DSD support l, if I was designing a streamer or DAC (if I had any idea how to) I wouldn't bother either.

Nor MQA support for very much longer.

 

[dtc]

Yes, that makes sense.
Most modern DACs can transcode DSD (DOP) to 1 bit PCM for conversion.

I can get the same from my external DAC by enabling DSD-over-PCM (DOP) in the LMS DSD Player plugin, as well as disabling EQ, volume, and fade in the Wiim to preserve the format for pass through to my DAC as per daydreamer's intructions.

Personally I don't see the point of DSD now, other than the novelty, and am more than happy with my redbook 16 bit 44.1kHz FLAC library.

What do you mean by "1 bit PCM"? PCM, by definition, is multi-bit.

1 bit data at 2.822 MHz is DSD. Not sure why you would call that PCM.

DoP is a 24 bit PCM format, with each of 16 bits just one of the DSD values, which is then converted back to native DSD format by the DAC before playing. Is that what you are calling 1 bit PCM?

So exactly what is this 1 bit PCM you are referencing?

 

[FreakyKiwi]

What do you mean by "1 bit PCM"? PCM, by definition, is multi-bit.

1 bit data at 2.822 MHz is DSD. Not sure why you would call that PCM.

DoP is a 24 bit PCM format, with each of 16 bits just one of the DSD values, which is then converted back to native DSD format by the DAC before playing. Is that what you are calling 1 bit PCM?

So exactly what is this 1 bit PCM you are referencing?

That all makes sense, and exceeds my prior understanding.
All I know is that if I enable PCM conversion in DSD player (by disabling DoP), Wiim reports a 1 bit format leading me to assume it must be 1 bit PCM.

 

[dtc]

The 1 bit 2822.4 KHz line is indeed baffling. Since you have converted it to PCM in the player, then Wiim should only see that. It is possible that the header of the file the player sends still have 1 bit and 2822.4 Hz in the metadata and Wiim is just picking that up and reporting it, even though the actual data is multibit PCM.

 

[FreakyKiwi]

The 1 bit 2822.4 KHz line is indeed baffling. Since you have converted it to PCM in the player, then Wiim should only see that. It is possible that the header of the file the player sends still have 1 bit and 2822.4 Hz in the metadata and Wiim is just picking that up and reporting it, even though the actual data is multibit PCM.

Yes, that seems to be the case, LMS is sending the metadata of the source file regardless of how the file is actually being sent,
My DAC shows a sample rate of 176k when playing the files this way which confirms that a PCM conversion is taking place before reaching the DAC.

On my PC using squeezelite I get the same result with the web Ui displaying "1 bit 2822.4kHz DSF" in the playing status, and this system doesn't support any form of DSD playback.
This is still the case if I enable DoP which is certainly sending a PCM format and causes only static to play.

The lesson here is to not trust the details Wiim displays, at least as received through Squeezelite.

 

[Tom Schultz]

For any who may be interested in DSD playback through the WiiM, I found this to be possible as follows:

1. You will need a DAC connected via coax or Toslink that supports DoP64 decoding (some only support this via USB)
2. Volume needs to be fixed at 100%, all internal EQ must be disabled and Fade-in/Fade-out effect disabled
3. In MinimServer's MinimStreamer configuration page enable transcoding of DSF file to Dop-encoded by adding "dsf:dopwav" to the steam:transcode box, OR
4. If using Lyrion Music Server (LMS), Enable DSD-over-PCM in Extra Player Settings/DSDPlayer and set volume to fixed at 100%.

In this mode, WiiM thinks it is playing a PCM file, but the encoding is not PCM, it is DSD. As long as the processing inside the WiiM is bit perfect (no EQ or volume control allowed), this is all you need.

I make no claims as to whether the sonic differences are worth it, but if you happen to have DSD files in your collection, and a DAC that is suitable (see #1 above) you might want to try this approach and judge for yourself.

Charles.

It's great news you have found a way to play DSD to an external DAC. I had tried with a Pro Plus, but couldn't get it to work. I ended up returning the Pro Plus and getting the Cambridge Audio mxn10 instead. It plays DSD through its internal DAC.

Now I'm even more eagerly looking forward to the WiiM Ultra, knowing that there will be a way at least to play DSD to an externally connected Chord Mojo2. Maybe they will even sort out DSD playback with the Ultra's internal DAC by then.

Best,
Tom

 

[daydreamer]

It's great news you have found a way to play DSD to an external DAC. I had tried with a Pro Plus, but couldn't get it to work. I ended up returning the Pro Plus and getting the Cambridge Audio mxn10 instead. It plays DSD through its internal DAC.

Now I'm even more eagerly looking forward to the WiiM Ultra, knowing that there will be a way at least to play DSD to an externally connected Chord Mojo2. Maybe they will even sort out DSD playback with the Ultra's internal DAC by then.

Best,
Tom

I was not able to verify that the Chord Mojo 2 accepts DoP64 over its coaxial input, which is a pre-requisite. Chord's user manual and web site are silent on this point. Certainly, DSD is supported over USB, but that won't help with a WiiM streamer which lacks a USB output.

 

[dtc]

I was not able to verify that the Chord Mojo 2 accepts DoP64 over its coaxial input, which is a pre-requisite. Chord's user manual and web site are silent on this point. Certainly, DSD is supported over USB, but that won't help with a WiiM streamer which lacks a USB output.

Chord supports DoP over coax on some of its DACs which makes he think the Mojo 2 probably does also. For example, here is an article that says DoP works on the Qutest. An email to Chord may confirm if the Mojo 2 supports this. Moon Audio may also know. They are big into Chord products.

Chord Qutest DAC Review: Audiophile's Delight

Read Time: Approx. 12 min. TL;DR Upgraded DAC based on the Hugo 2 architecture, offering superior sound quality with doubled processing power, exceptional clarity, and a "dead quiet" background Versatile connectivity (USB, optical, dual BNC inputs), four selectable filters for sound...

www.moon-audio.com

 

[Tom Schultz]

Thanks! The Mojo 2 does accept DoP over the coaxial connection. I have used it that way with the Cambridge Audio streamer. Besides, the WiiM Ultra will also have USB Out.

 

[Claudius2k]

I activated the Minimserver trial, added the def:dropwas line to the stream.transcode. Turned off EQ, maxed volume and turned off Fade in/out. Restarted the server and the Wiim. I optically connected my DAC (Grace Design M920) to the Wiim Opitcal out. When it plays a DSD64 file .dsf (which originally stream converted to PCM 192-24), the Wiim now shows 24bit 176.44kHz. The DAC recognized that source rate and lites up 176Khz incoming but the DSD signal sensor light on the DAC is out and the output sounds like mostly hiss and very faint music in the background from the source. I made sure the Wiim optical out setting allowed 192kHz the max. Any idea why it's not decoding?

 

[daydreamer]

I activated the Minimserver trial, added the def:dropwas line to the stream.transcode. Turned off EQ, maxed volume and turned off Fade in/out. Restarted the server and the Wiim. I optically connected my DAC (Grace Design M920) to the Wiim Opitcal out. When it plays a DSD64 file .dsf (which originally stream converted to PCM 192-24), the Wiim now shows 24bit 176.44kHz. The DAC recognized that source rate and lites up 176Khz incoming but the DSD signal sensor light on the DAC is out and the output sounds like mostly hiss and very faint music in the background from the source. I made sure the Wiim optical out setting allowed 192kHz the max. Any idea why it's not decoding?

Assuming you used "dsf:dopwav" and not "def:dropwas" (spell correction can be unhelpful) the only other thing I could think of is that the WiiM's volume balance is at 0.00

 

[Claudius2k]

Assuming you used "dsf:dopwav" and not "def:dropwas" (spell correction can be unhelpful) the only other thing I could think of is that the WiiM's volume balance is at 0.00

Thank you so much for replying. Probably just my typo in my message. But I tried it again, same result. Without going through the Minimserver Wiim converts the .dsf to 192Khz and displays on the Wiim, after starting the file through the Minimserver index (with the plugin configured) ) it displays 176Khz on the Wiim and my DAC displays 176Khz as expected for the DSD file, so Minimserver must be doing it's job converting it at least the frequency. I suppose it could be my DAC (while DSD compatible) it is old, and I have not been updating firmware (if it still exists) and I have never played DSD through it. Again it is not recognizing it as DSD. So maybe it is the DAC? Thanks Again

 

[slartibartfast]

Thank you so much for replying. Probably just my typo in my message. But I tried it again, same result. Without going through the Minimserver Wiim converts the .dsf to 192Khz and displays on the Wiim, after starting the file through the Minimserver index (with the plugin configured) ) it displays 176Khz on the Wiim and my DAC displays 176Khz as expected for the DSD file, so Minimserver must be doing it's job converting it at least the frequency. I suppose it could be my DAC (while DSD compatible) it is old, and I have not been updating firmware (if it still exists) and I have never played DSD through it. Again it is not recognizing it as DSD. So maybe it is the DAC? Thanks Again

Doesn't DSD only work over USB?

 

[Claudius2k]

Doesn't DSD only work over USB?

Thank you Slartibartfast and daydreamer . You guys are awesome. I went back and tried USB (AGAIN) instead of optical. It worked !! Unfortunately my DAC has a Mini-USB input socket of which there are few miniusb cables around. The one I grabbed had a choke in it for power filtering. I found another without a choke and VOILA!! OMG I haven't heard SACD sound in 30 years. Thank you. Thank you Thank you