It's time to evolve into new Flagship

[Flatron7]

It's been almost a year and a half since I purchased my beloved Wiim Ultra. In this time, Wiim has expanded its product range by introducing many new products such as amplifiers, subs, and speakers. As for the streamer range, I think now is the time to complete the line, as other companies have done, raising the bar and introducing the Wiim flagship with all the experience gained with the Mini, PRO, Pro Plus, and Ultra. I think the time has come to look at a Wiim Apex, Zenith, Signature, Reference, Master, or Absolute streamer. In short, choose the name that best represents you, but the point is that, given the quality of the Wiim world and what competitors are putting on the market, I think it's necessary for Wiim to introduce a new flagship streamer. I'm in love with their products, but now I want a streamer without compromises and I'd be willing to pay a lot of money for it. I've said to myself many times: how much I would like the hardware quality of product X with the software quality of the Ultra. Am I the only one who thinks this, or do I have some friends?

 

[hgo58]

This is discussed in the thread 'Features wanted in a Wiim Ultra 2' https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/features-wanted-in-a-wiim-ultra-2.7524/

 

[Wiimer]

, I think it's necessary for Wiim to introduce a new flagship streamer. I'm in love with their products, but now I want a streamer without compromises and I'd be willing to pay a lot of money for it. I've said to myself many times: how much I would like the hardware quality of product X with the software quality of the Ultra. Am I the only one who thinks this, or do I have some friends?

Hi
What level of flagship model are you referring to?

E.g., in terms of the Eversolo models frequently discussed here, which model would it be equivalent to?

DMP-A10
DMP-A8
DMP-A6

 

[Flatron7]

This is discussed in the thread 'Features wanted in a Wiim Ultra 2' https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/features-wanted-in-a-wiim-ultra-2.7524/

No, my friend, it's not the same. There, we talk about what I'd like from a potential new Ultra streamer. Here, I've shifted the focus not to the specific features but to Wii's need to raise the bar and move to a new level of quality. Not an advanced Ultra 2, but a model that makes a huge leap forward and caters to a different target audience. Eversolo, Bluesound, and FiiO have done it, just to name a few, but I could go on. I believe that with the technology and optimization Wii has mastered today, we can push ourselves even further and create a truly top-of-the-line product.

 

[Flatron7]

Hi
What level of flagship model are you referring to?

E.g., in terms of the Eversolo models frequently discussed here, which model would it be equivalent to?

DMP-A10
DMP-A8
DMP-A6

Eversolo did it starting from a higher base, but I mean exactly that level of evolution. My dream would be to have a Wii U that competes in the $1,000/$2,000 category, but I'm sure it would compete with even the highest quality ones. For example, a friend has a Gustard x30. It has extraordinary hardware but embarrassing software. I thought: if that x30 had Wii U's software and hands-on experience, it would be the best device on earth.

 

[HighNRG]

Short remark: This is about WiiM. With an M at the end! You could bring Wii (without M) console players on a wrong trap.

 

[hgo58]

Eversolo did it starting from a higher base, but I mean exactly that level of evolution. My dream would be to have a Wii U that competes in the $1,000/$2,000 category, but I'm sure it would compete with even the highest quality ones. For example, a friend has a Gustard x30. It has extraordinary hardware but embarrassing software. I thought: if that x30 had Wii U's software and hands-on experience, it would be the best device on earth.

The company is call WiiM, not Wii And I don't think you will see this kind of devices from WiiM that you dream of.

The consumer segment for WiiM is "low" costs hardware with the focus on software. The current Ultras have all the quality I need. No need to spend any more on hardware just to show of.

I may of course be totally wrong and it is up to WiiM if they think more expensive hardware is the way to go.

 

[HighNRG]

Of course you may

 

[canard]

Funny...
Personally, it seems more like a headlong rush towards the high-end market when Wiim has little experience in audio, etc.

It's more about revisiting their lower-end range...now a bit dated...
a new, updated Mini...
an "ultra-optimized" product without a screen, replacing the Pro/Plus models...
while respecting their pricing strategy...

this positioning, along with their expertise in streaming software and low prices, was the source of their success.

 

[dominikz]

I agree with @hgo58 and @canard

WiiM streamer and amps can already compete with devices at any price looking at raw audio performance.
IMHO what makes WiiM stand out from the competition is the constant SW improvement, responsive support, and the low price.

 

[Wiimer]

Funny...
Personally, it seems more like a headlong rush towards the high-end market when Wiim has little experience in audio, etc.

At present, I don't think so. They've only just announced the more mass-market WiiM Sound.

 

[Flatron7]

The company is call WiiM, not Wii And I don't think you will see this kind of devices from WiiM that you dream of.

The consumer segment for WiiM is "low" costs hardware with the focus on software. The current Ultras have all the quality I need. No need to spend any more on hardware just to show of.

I may of course be totally wrong and it is up to WiiM if they think more expensive hardware is the way to go.

Sorry for some language errors. I often use the translator and it often translates Wiim poorly. My hope of having a higher-end streamer will probably remain just a hope, it's true, but I've noticed that other manufacturers are elevating their products on the market. And I don't agree that this is just show-off; on the contrary, I've had the opportunity to try many products, and those with better hardware sound decidedly better. Anyone who thinks that streamers/DACs/amps like the Ultra all sound the same is very wrong. The Ultra sounds very good for its price. You can't compare the Ultra's sound to an Eversolo DMP A10, a Bluesound Icon, a Fiio K15, Audiolab 9000N, etc. And here's the problem: all of these, and many others even at a higher price, don't have the same software and features as the Wiim in the slightest. Perhaps only the Eversolo can compete. It's therefore a shame that this mastery of the software isn't supported by hardware of the same level. This is precisely the point of my argument. The software and features developed by Wiim deserve better hardware. It almost seems like a waste. It's the same thing I said about Gustard products. Such magnificent hardware deserves adequate software.

 

[canard]

At present, I don't think so. They've only just announced the more mass-market WiiM Sound.

I wasn't talking about Wiim...
but about the comments of some active forum users with the somewhat fanciful idea of "wanting the best," "with everything I need," and..... "cheap, of course."



Does that really represent the "market"? Is the over-the-top agitation of some on social media so relevant to Wiim?
;-)
(Personally, I'm just trying not to include the idea of "my personal needs" or "fantasies" in this reflection if it's meant to support Wiim... (but it's easy for me because I don't have any... my plus-me is enough for that purpose ;-) ))

 

[hgo58]

The thing is that WiiM (not Wiim) is utilizing the available hardware components in a clever way and only cut corners where it makes sense. Not going into the rabbit hole of adding components that doesn't improve any thing, except on paper.

 

[Wiimer]

I wasn't talking about Wiim...
but about the comments of some active forum users with the somewhat fanciful idea of "wanting the best," "with everything I need," and..... "cheap, of course."

Ah, I see. Well, that was my misunderstanding then.

Does that really represent the "market"? Is the over-the-top agitation of some on social media so relevant to Wiim?
;-)
(Personally, I'm just trying not to include the idea of "my personal needs" or "fantasies" in this reflection if it's meant to support Wiim... (but it's easy for me because I don't have any... my plus-me is enough for that purpose ;-) ))

I can't say for certain, but I recognise that their current strategy of increasing product variations is the correct course of action.

 

[hgo58]

If I should want an update to the hardware it should be faster CPUs and more memory, to allow implementation of more software services and protocols.

 

[dominikz]

Anyone who thinks that streamers/DACs/amps like the Ultra all sound the same is very wrong.

This is a bit of a red herring because informal audio gear comparisons simply don't translate well - sometimes not even to the same person, let alone other people and environments.

Unfortunately people's listening impressions can be influenced by many things, including trivial stuff like their momentary mood. It is just a part of the human condition, and no one is immune to it.

On the other hand, tests where care is taken to control undesired variables (like e.g. playback level inconsistencies and sighted bias) tend to show pretty consistent results across large groups of people.

But I appreciate that this seems incredible if one never had the opportunity to participate in formalized listening tests, so I fully understand why many people have a hard time accepting this.

 

[canard]

The thing is that WiiM (not Wiim) is utilizing the available hardware components in a clever way and only cut corners where it makes sense. Not going into the rabbit hole of adding components that doesn't improve any thing, except on paper.

Just approached from an economic/cost-positioning basis, it seems to me... rather normal...
;-)
(The only part that seems a bit too far back from the adc is ( or headphone output for ultra)... I don't think it's related to the cost parameter..The rest is fairly consistent/cost-wise regarding audio, in line with what typical Chinese brands ( dac) can currently produce.
)

It's clear for some here that the "fantasy" idea is for Wiim to enter the high-end market, where Eversolo is so prevalent and "installed," for example, with a nice screen, "high-end" audio... but "cheap" - "less expensive"...
That's really what positif for wiim... I'm not so sure...(?)
A reinforcement of their positioning, rather?
(Their position in all-in-one is well played, however, it seems to me.)

Strengthen their position, which has become more legitimate... or attack the competition already well established in their market...??
Or sell the Linkplay streaming business, or the recognized streaming business, outsourced to other market players... and maintain their strong position in their current market by ensuring its long-term viability?
Just few " personnals thoughts"...
;-)

 

[Flatron7]

This is a bit of a red herring because informal audio gear comparisons simply don't translate well - sometimes not even to the same person, let alone other people and environments.

Unfortunately people's listening impressions can be influenced by many things, including trivial stuff like their momentary mood. It is just a part of the human condition, and no one is immune to it.

On the other hand, tests where care is taken to control undesired variables (like e.g. playback level inconsistencies and sighted bias) tend to show pretty consistent results across large groups of people.

But I appreciate that this seems incredible if one never had the opportunity to participate in formalized listening tests, so I fully understand why many people have a hard time accepting this.

So you're telling me the Ultra sounds as good as an MSB or a DCS or a Burmester? It's not possible to improve the audio quality of the Ultra and it's a perfect machine? So everyone who spends more than 320 euros on a streamer/DAC/Preamp is an idiot who's influenced by mood and placebo effects? I don't know how many of us here have high-end HiFi systems or how many of us have ever listened to high-end systems or even slightly less. If we really think the Ultra is the absolute best, I think there's a problem here. For me, the Wii Ultra is an exceptional machine in its price category in terms of SQ. But in absolute terms, it certainly isn't. I agree that WiiM is unlikely to change target and remain in the low-cost range, but I reiterate the concept: Don't we believe that the WiiM software is superior to the class of devices it represents? It really seems that for this manufacturing company, the limit of software development is precisely the hardware. I also maintain that if you can't hear the difference between a Wii U Ultra and a Gustard X30, there's a really big problem. When I did this test, even my wife in the next room could hear the difference. We're not talking about nuances, but a whole other class of difference.

 

[Aquaman]

I share a certain sympathy for @Flatron7 's view. Not in every way, but for a good part.
I don't think that better hardware will have much effect on the sound but certainly on the emotions transported.

They could even make a marketing strategy out of it saying that their top-tier gadget will sound the same as an Ultra but offer this and that more. By doing so they would further gain in credibility (not trying to sell voodoo) and could even stay on the budget side of things as the higher price would only pay for the build extras. It would not be milking-the-cow like others do it, but I'm sure they would attract a wider audience and further establish their market position and reputation.

This is where Eversolo is going wrong in my opinion. It severely puts me off to see a new and supposedly better sounding model every six months. The advertised improvements are either BS in themselves or they are cheating on their customers by selling them the 'best' today, knowing that there is better to come in a few months time.

Personally I would love a nicely built full-size 'Ultra' to better fit my setup with a power amp with a classic footprint.