Low sub out level

[eByGum]

I recently switched out from a WiiM Amp driving speakers and subwoofer to an WiiM Ultra (driving sub) with Emotiva A2 power amp driving speakers. I've noticed the sub level needs to be boosted about 5db (in SVS app) to achieve the same outcome. No big deal, I'm not suggesting an issue or anything, just wondering if others who have made a similar switch have noticed this difference or is it just me?

 

[Smartplug]

I recently switched out from a WiiM Amp driving speakers and subwoofer to an WiiM Ultra (driving sub) with Emotiva A2 power amp driving speakers. I've noticed the sub level needs to be boosted about 5db (in SVS app) to achieve the same outcome. No big deal, I'm not suggesting an issue or anything, just wondering if others who have made a similar switch have noticed this difference or is it just me?

On wiim app there’s a sub setting where you can increase the sub out. Try that out. Mine was set to zero and volume on sub was just less than 25 percent. When a pipe organ hit hard I could feel the impact. What crossover did you set your sub?

 

[eByGum]

Yes, I can boost 5db in WiiM app or in SVS app to compensate. My point really is that like for like, with same settings, the sub output seems 5db-ish down when using Ultra with power amp combo.
I have crossover at 100hz on both Amp and Ultra.

 

[Wiimer]

I recently switched out from a WiiM Amp driving speakers and subwoofer to an WiiM Ultra (driving sub) with Emotiva A2 power amp driving speakers. I've noticed the sub level needs to be boosted about 5db (in SVS app) to achieve the same outcome. No big deal, I'm not suggesting an issue or anything, just wondering if others who have made a similar switch have noticed this difference or is it just me?

I didn't notice that because I didn't compare them directly.

I ask this out of curiosity, is the main audio output digital or analog? Is the Sub-Out volume the same whether the main output is SPDIF or Line-Out?

 

[eByGum]

I didn't notice that because I didn't compare them directly.

I ask this out of curiosity, is the main audio output digital or analog? Is the Sub-Out volume the same whether the main output is SPDIF or Line-Out?

Audio out from Ultra to Emotiva is analog RCA connection. No means to like for like check SPDIF.

 

[mlsstl]

Yes, I can boost 5db in WiiM app or in SVS app to compensate. My point really is that like for like, with same settings, the sub output seems 5db-ish down when using Ultra with power amp combo.
I have crossover at 100hz on both Amp and Ultra.

Just curious -- you're not using both crossovers are you? You should only use one or the other. I prefer the WiiM Ultra's sub output in my system since it also acts as a high-pass for the main speakers.

 

[eByGum]

Just curious -- you're not using both crossovers are you? You should only use one or the other. I prefer the WiiM Ultra's sub output in my system since it also acts as a high-pass for the main speakers.

I do everything in the WiiM app for sub settings, LFE mode active in the sub with no eq or room gain active. The only thing I've done in SVS app is the 5 db boost and will likely do that in WiiM app as well after I've finished testing and twiddling.

 

[Wiimer]

Maybe @onlyoneme knows about the amount of Sub output. I looked for his Ultra measurements a bit but couldn't find them.

His Amp test says this.

"Sub out signal is a sum of both channels content and can reach 1.98 Vrms in stereo mode for 0 dBFS sine."

My WiiM Amp tests

Well, not finished. Yet. But let's start with some facts. The Amp seems to be a class D BTL H-bridge amp with a single power rail (find someone smarter than me for an explanation), and with an advanced temperature monitoring through some sensors to deliver "optimal performance and safety" which...

forum.wiimhome.com

 

[slartibartfast]

I recently switched out from a WiiM Amp driving speakers and subwoofer to an WiiM Ultra (driving sub) with Emotiva A2 power amp driving speakers. I've noticed the sub level needs to be boosted about 5db (in SVS app) to achieve the same outcome. No big deal, I'm not suggesting an issue or anything, just wondering if others who have made a similar switch have noticed this difference or is it just me?

Does that mean the Emotiva amp has 5dB more gain than the WiiM Amp? The WiiM Amp has fairly low gain so I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[harkpabst]

Does that mean the Emotiva amp has 5dB more gain than the WiiM Amp? The WiiM Amp has fairly low gain so I wouldn't be surprised.

And that exactly is the solution.

You cannot expect the WiiM Amp as an integrated amp having exactly the same gain and sensitivity as any external amp connected to the Ultra. There simply is no such thing as like for like.

@eByGum, what output voltage have you configured for the Ultra (that's a setting not present for the Amp, of course)? Reduce it to the next lower level and you will find that the sub is too loud now.

I don't necessarily recommend lowering the output voltage just to balance the sub. You should pick the output voltage so that you can reach the highest level you'll ever want (even with a rather low input source) at 100% volume setting on the Ultra. Then adjust the sub level accoringly.

If the power amp has switchable gain it might be useful to start with the lower setting and see if that works out.

 

[Wiimer]

Since @eByGum is talking about the difference in output volume of the sub out, I'm assuming the main amp has nothing to do with it.

Maybe I am mistaken?

 

[slartibartfast]

Since @eByGum is talking about the difference in output volume of the sub out, I'm assuming the main amp has nothing to do with it.

Maybe I am mistaken?

I think you are . The WiiM doesn't know what the gain of an external amplifier is so you need to make adjustments to match the main speakers to the sub.

 

[harkpabst]

Since @eByGum is talking about the difference in output volume of the sub out, I'm assuming the main amp has nothing to do with it.

Maybe I am mistaken?

He didn't measure and compare the output voltage of the sub out, but just compared the loudness of the sub relative to the main speakers.

 

[Wiimer]

@slartibartfast, @harkpabst,

Yes, I am just a WiiM nerd, so I have no idea about audio.

Thanks to both teachers.

 

[QuarryHunslet]

Ideally, you shouldn't really be able to hear anything from the subwoofer, but should feel it when there is suitably low frequency bass, the sound should always seem to be coming from the main speakers.

My sub is a downward firing, forward ported design with an 8" driver in quite a large enclosure, but still provides more than enough output when used on a suspended wooden floor.

I listen to a lot of theatre organ music, many of the organs have 32' stops which produce bass down to 16 Hz, and all have 16' stops which go down to 32 Hz. There are even a couple of concert organs that contain a 64' stop, producing bass down to 8 Hz.

 

[eByGum]

Reduce it to the next lower level and you will find that the sub is too loud now

I'd seen output voltage and not put 2 and 2 together. I reduced to 1 and the levels are more balanced now.

Thanks for the insights, much appreciated.