no ALAC (m4a) playback via LMS

[Agon123]

Hi -
I'm having a weird experience using LMS in that ALAC and PCM files (m4a, aiff) won't play back on my WiiM Pro Plus when I use the LMS web interface (Material skin). However the same songs will play as expected when I use the WiiM Home app to access the LMS server (the khz/bit are exactly as the music files). As examples, below is the media information for two versions of the same song that won't playback via the LMS web interface.

• This all happens when set the File Type settings as "Native" for AAC, AIFF, Apple Lossless.
• But when I set these file types to "Disabled" . The .m4a song is reported as 2835kbps VBR (Converted to 705kbps FLAC) and the .aiff song is reported as 8467kbps CBR (Converted to 705kbps FLAC)

Question: why does the native format play using the WiiM Home app I have "Native" turned on; but the LMW web interface need to have native Disabled?
Question: is it possible to use Native playback and use the LMS web interface to minimize the chain involved in playback?

Thanks in advance!


Examples files:

01 Give Life Back To Music.aiff
Audio Format : PCM
Format settings : Big
Duration : 4 min 34 s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 8 467 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 176.4 kHz
Bit depth : 24 bits

01 Give Life Back to Music.m4a
Format : ALAC
Codec ID : alac
Codec ID/Info : Apple Lossless Audio Codec
Duration : 4 min 34 s
Duration_LastFrame : -6 ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 2 835 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 88.2 kHz
Bit depth : 24 bits

 

[simbun]

I didn't know about AIFF, but the LMS squeezelite implementation doesn't support ALAC.

Options for controlling LMS

#Yes, with ALAC disabled, and yes I can skip tracks (at least on the album currently playing I haven't tried any others yet). The only anomaly is that the volume is lower than it would be if the music was steamed from Amazon Music, despite me setting LMS to 100%. I found you need to set 100%...

forum.wiimhome.com

 

[Agon123]

I didn't know about AIFF, but the LMS squeezelite implementation doesn't support ALAC.

Options for controlling LMS

#Yes, with ALAC disabled, and yes I can skip tracks (at least on the album currently playing I haven't tried any others yet). The only anomaly is that the volume is lower than it would be if the music was steamed from Amazon Music, despite me setting LMS to 100%. I found you need to set 100%...

forum.wiimhome.com

I see. But I assumed that the "Native" setting sends the ALAC file "as is" to the Wiim Pro Plus, which would in turn playback correctly. Seems that that's not the case (obviously), so what does Native do then?

I should also add that my Onkyo receiver also wasn't able to playback these file types from the LMS (ie, no web interface used; and File Type set to Native). I'm not sure if I need to change the upnp bridge settings, but the same receiver is able to playback the files from two other servers I have, Twonky and Minimserver.

 

[simbun]

I see. But I assumed that the "Native" setting send the ALAC file "as is" to the Wiim Pro Plus, which would in turn playback correctly. Seems that that's not the case (obviously), so what does Native do then?

The Native setting would indeed send it as ALAC to the Squeezelite interface of the Pro Plus, that doesn't support ALAC.
If you used the LMS UPnP bridge to proxy the WiiM's UPnP interface I'd imagine it would work.
Two interfaces with different capabilities.

 

[Agon123]

The Native setting would indeed send it as ALAC to the Squeezelite interface of the Pro Plus, that doesn't support ALAC.
If you used the LMS UPnP bridge to proxy the WiiM's UPnP interface I'd imagine it would work.
Two interfaces with different capabilities.

Thanks for the additional details.

I'm still very much a noob, and only now discovered that when with the LMS UPnP plugin, there is an option to select the UPnPBridge player of the WiiM Pro+, which will convert a Apple Lossless (alac) file to FLAC format. Conversely, if I set File Types for "Apple Lossless" to "Disabled" and then use the SqueezeLite player, the same alac file is converted to FLAC.

Last question (I promise): if I use the WiiM Home app as the interface to playback the content served by LMS, is the WiiM Pro Plus playing the alac directly (ie, no conversion)?

 

[simbun]

Last question (I promise): if I use the WiiM Home app as the interface to playback the content served by LMS, is the WiiM Pro Plus playing the alac directly (ie, no conversion)?

I'm afraid it's not something I know off the top of my head, but I'd imagine so.
I'll try and have a look tomorrow if it's still unanswered.

 

[AlanB]

@d6jg helped me with this issue as my music collection is ripped to ALAC. I can't recall exactly what I did.

The thread details what needs to be done:

https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/options-for-controlling-lms.1564/

 

[Agon123]

@d6jg helped me with this issue as my music collection is ripped to ALAC. I can't recall exactly what I did.

The thread details what needs to be done:

https://forum.wiimhome.com/threads/options-for-controlling-lms.1564/

Thanks for pointing me to that thread. I had perused it the other day when I first noticed the problem. My conclusions and actions after all of the help from you and @simbun are:

1. Any file type which contains Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC) content will not be pass-through to the WiiM Pro Plus "as is" for playback because the Squeezelite player implemented by the WiiM Pro Plus cannot currently process Apple Lossless.
2. I haven't gone the rabbit hole to understand why the WiiM Pro Plus needs a separate "player" since I assumed that it was the player, just like an audio receiver.
3. The WPP and my Onkyo receiver can playback an Apple Lossless file when I pull it from the LMS server using these devices' app.
   • The same Apple Lossless file won't play when I push the same file from the LMS web interface (Material skin).
   • Filetypes which contain ALAC content are m4a
4. Via UPnP , LMS will push a flac converted version of Apple Lossless files if I activate the UPnP Bridge plug-in.
   • I've named this player on LMS "WiiM Pro + (UPnP)"
5. Via Squeezelite (ie, the default "player" for LMS used to push to WPP), I have changed the File Type setting for "Apple Lossless" to "Disabled."
   • I've named this player on LMS simply as "WiiM Pro+"
   • I suggest changing the name "Apple Lossless" to "Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC)" to help noobs like me understand where to change the settings for "lossless .m4a" filetypes.
     • For instance there are other File Types listed which confused me: "Apple Lossless leading audio," "MPEG-4", "MPEG-4 SLS / HD-AAC"
6. There is no equivalent of "Passthrough" audio that would let endpoint devices (Onkyo, WPP) play the native file type.
   • In the settings for the UPnP Bridge plugin, I changed the option for "Audio format to UPnP player" from "auto" to "none" hoping this would pass-through the ALAC stream, but unfortunately this doesn't work either.

Bottom line #1 - The above seems the most flexible solution for playing ALAC files on my WPP and receiver.
Bottom line #2 - Even with this significant issue (now worked around), LMS is a great companion with the WPP.

​

 

[Hiphiman]

Thanks for pointing me to that thread. I had perused it the other day when I first notice the problem. My conclusions and actions after all of the help from you and @simbum are:

1. Any file type which contains Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC) content will not be pass-through to the WiiM Pro Plus "as is" for playback because the Squeezelite player implement by the WiiM Pro Plus cannot currently process Apple Lossless.
2. I haven't gone the rabbit hole to understand why the WiiM Pro Plus needs a separate "player" since I assumed that it was the player, just like an audio receiver.
3. The WPP and my Onkyo receiver can playback an Apple Lossless file when I pullit from the LMS server,
   • The same Apple Lossless file won't play when I push the same file from the LMS web interface (Material skin).
   • Filetypes which contain ALAC content are m4a
4. Via UPnP , LMS will pusha flac converted version of Apple Lossless files if I activate the UPnP Bridge plug-in.
   • I've named this player on LMS "WiiM Pro + (UPnP)"
5. Via Squeezelite (ie, the default "player" for LMS used to push to WPP), I have changed the File Type setting for "Apple Lossless" to "Disabled."
   • I've named this player on LMS simply as "WiiM Pro+"
   • I suggest changing the name "Apple Lossless" to "Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC)" to help noobs like me understand where to change the settings for "lossless .m4a" filetypes.
     • For instance there are other File Types listed which confuse me: "Apple Lossless leading audio," "MPEG-4", "MPEG-4 SLS / HD-AAC"
6. There is no equivalent of "Passthrough" audio that would let endpoint (Onkyo, WPP) play the native file type.
   • In the settings for the UPnP Bridge plugin, I changed the option for "Audio format to UPnP player" from "auto" to "none" hoping this would pass-through the ALAC stream, but unfortunately this doesn't work either.

Bottom line #1 - The above seems the most flexible solution for playing ALAC files on my WPP and receiver.
Bottom line #2 - Even with this significant issue (now worked around), LMS is a great companion with the WPP.

​

Thanks Agon123. Just to clarify, you have found the only way to play ALAC on a WPP is not to use the Squeezelite client built into the WiiM but use the UPnP Bridge plugin instead? Or have I misinterpreted?

 

[Agon123]

Thanks Agon123. Just to clarify, you have found the only way to play ALAC on a WPP is not to use the Squeezelite client built into the WiiM but use the UPnP Bridge plugin instead? Or have I misinterpreted?

Yes, I can play the ALAC files through Squeezelite ("Player Model: SqueezeLite; Player Type: squeezelite")
if they are converted to FLAC. To help clarify which protocol applies when I activate the UPnPBridge plugin, I've renamed the WPP player which utilizes the UPnP protocol. See screenshot below. I use UPnPBridge plugin so that I can use the Material skin to listen to music on my Onkyo receiver.

• FYI, I don't Disable any other File Types

This setup also gives me the flexibility of pointing the WPP and a network-capable receiver/integrated amp to the LMS on my NAS. In this case, I use the WiiM Home app and the receiver's app (which are not as nice as the Material skin) to select music. ALAC files play flawlessly if I pull them in this manner.

 

[Balthazar B]

Bottom line #1 - The above seems the most flexible solution for playing ALAC files on my WPP and receiver.
Bottom line #2 - Even with this significant issue (now worked around), LMS is a great companion with the WPP.

And one always has the option to bulk convert all those ALAC files losslessly to FLAC, which could eliminate the need to jump through as-yet undiscovered hoops in the future.

 

[Agon123]

And one always has the option to bulk convert all those ALAC files losslessly to FLAC, which could eliminate the need to jump through as-yet undiscovered hoops in the future.

Agreed. There are plenty of options to meet different needs and circumstances.

 

[Hiphiman]

Yes, I can play the ALAC files through Squeezelite ("Player Model: SqueezeLite; Player Type: squeezelite")
if they are converted to FLAC. To help clarify which protocol applies when I activate the UPnPBridge plugin, I've renamed the WPP player which utilizes the UPnP protocol. See screenshot below. I use UPnPBridge plugin so that I can use the Material skin to listen to music on my Onkyo receiver.

• FYI, I don't Disable any other File Types

This setup also gives me the flexibility of pointing the WPP and a network-capable receiver/integrated amp to the LMS on my NAS. In this case, I use the WiiM Home app and the receiver's app (which are not as nice as the Material skin) to select music. ALAC files play flawlessly if I pull them in this manner.

I had been considering upgrading my WiiM Mini to a WPP because the Squeezelite client is not available on the Mini but since I would be no better off than now (I already use the UPnP Bridge and my music is currently encoded as ALAC) then it gives me cause to reconsider.
As mentioned, I could convert ALAC to FLAC but am I correct in thinking that it would require another (software) purchase to be able to bulk convert rather than do this one track at a time?

 

[simbun]

I had been considering upgrading my WiiM Mini to a WPP because the Squeezelite client is not available on the Mini but since I would be no better off than now (I already use the UPnP Bridge and my music is currently encoded as ALAC) then it gives me cause to reconsider.
As mentioned, I could convert ALAC to FLAC but am I correct in thinking that it would require another (software) purchase to be able to bulk convert rather than do this one track at a time?

You can configure LMS to transcode to FLAC on the fly (as described in the first post) so you won't need to batch convert.

set these file types to "Disabled" . The .m4a song is reported as 2835kbps VBR (Converted to 705kbps FLAC) and the .aiff song is reported as 8467kbps CBR (Converted to 705kbps FLAC)

 

[Agon123]

You can configure LMS to transcode to FLAC on the fly (as described in the first post) so you won't need to batch convert

You can configure LMS to transcode to FLAC on the fly (as described in the first post) so you won't need to batch convert

I had been considering upgrading my WiiM Mini to a WPP because the Squeezelite client is not available on the Mini but since I would be no better off than now (I already use the UPnP Bridge and my music is currently encoded as ALAC) then it gives me cause to reconsider.
As mentioned, I could convert ALAC to FLAC but am I correct in thinking that it would require another (software) purchase to be able to bulk convert rather than do this one track at a time?

Like @simbun mentioned you don't need to batch convert. I also have a bit ALAC music library and am quite happy with using LMS as my primary control point. In my case, converting to FLAC is more burdensome since it would affect how I sync my music with my iPhone. Plus, it is plausible that the WiiM team will enable ALAC compatibility via Squeezelite.

 

[dangermouse]

Like @simbun mentioned you don't need to batch convert. I also have a bit ALAC music library and am quite happy with using LMS as my primary control point.

That's reassuring. I was quite puzzled by some of the posts in this thread. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever playing my ALAC files with LMS on my WiiM Pro.

 

[jxrxme]

@WiiM Support @WiiM Team
Any chance that you add ALAC compatibility via Squeezelite in the near future?
It would be highly appreciated on my side (despite the okish workaround with FLAC transcode).

 

[dangermouse]

@WiiM Support @WiiM Team
Any chance that you add ALAC compatibility via Squeezelite in the near future?
It would be highly appreciated on my side (despite the okish workaround with FLAC transcode).

I still don't understand what's going on here. As I said in post #16, I have no problem playing my ALAC files, either directly from the WiiM app or via LMS/Squeezelite. No transcoding from FLAC is necessary.

 

[jxrxme]

Playing ALAC directly from WiiM Home App works fine, but via LMS/Squeezelite only if I disabled setting „Native“ for Apple Lossless files (in order to enable on-the-fly transcode from ALAC to FLAC)

 

[d6jg]

That's reassuring. I was quite puzzled by some of the posts in this thread. I have absolutely no problem whatsoever playing my ALAC files with LMS on my WiiM Pro.

Do you really mean ALAC or do you mean some other form of m4a? The m4a file type can contain all sorts of different codecs.