Pre-gain on linked devices.

[WiiM Team]

Hi All,

Thank you all for your valuable discussions.

We've reviewed the pre-gain functionality in multiroom mode and determined that the pre-gain should apply to all devices in a group. We will have an internal discussion to explore the implementation details—stay tuned!

 

[Wiimer]

Hi All,

Thank you all for your valuable discussions.

We've reviewed the pre-gain functionality in multiroom mode and determined that the pre-gain should apply to all devices in a group. We will have an internal discussion to explore the implementation details—stay tuned!

Hi @WiiM Team,

If this is feasible, it would be better to do it on the slave side instead of the master device processing the signal.

The pre-gain value for each WiiM device is stored in WHA. Then the slave device will get that value when creating the MRM. Devices with "Group Pre-Gain (GPG)" turned on will output audio with the master's pre-gain value added.

This allows "Slave A" to have GPG turned on and "Slave B" to have it turned off.
(Of course, the master device will still assign the signal as before.)

I can't think of a use case for this because I don't need right now, but it will give us more flexibility.

But, @hgo58 who is all about "pre", might object vehemently.


Edit:
However, I can't imagine how this feature would work with the addition of MRM's master device deletion feature.

 

[canard]

Hi All,

Thank you all for your valuable discussions.

We've reviewed the pre-gain functionality in multiroom mode and determined that the pre-gain should apply to all devices in a group. We will have an internal discussion to explore the implementation details—stay tuned!

seeing you intervene here and not seeing you react on the threads concerning very serious problems concerning the audio like clipping etc...see the audio concerning all the wiim models and not "needs" concerning only the ultra (it s screen etc, ) like cal microphone or importants beta highly anticipated...
remains astonishing even worrying... or create a great weariness....

 

[Burnside]

Hi All,

Thank you all for your valuable discussions.

We've reviewed the pre-gain functionality in multiroom mode and determined that the pre-gain should apply to all devices in a group. We will have an internal discussion to explore the implementation details—stay tuned!

I would still have concerns that it “imbalances” the slave device across its inputs so this would surely have to be optional.

 

[hgo58]

The pre-gain is a regulation on the local device input volume, nothing else. This shall be done before anything else, including linking, EQ and output volume.

I really don't hope that it's implemented as an offset on the main volume control. That would be a great mistake.

@Wiimer The pre-gain values are stored in the device, not in the WHA.

I don't see a use case where you need it locally on the input device but not on linked devices.

The other option we have is the per source (input) volume. This works on the device that is used for output. For a linked device the volume will always be associated with the Network (WiFi/Ethernet) input until we get it split into the actual sources. This makes it even more important to be able to set pre-gains on the main device of the group.

 

[Burnside]

The pre-gain is a regulation on the local device input volume, nothing else. This shall be done before anything else, including linking, EQ and output volume.

@Wiimer The pre-gain is stored in the device, not in the WHA, as it should be.

I don't see a use case where you need it locally on the input device but not on linked devices.

I’m wouldn’t want my A+D example from above

 

[hgo58]

I’m wouldn’t want my A+D example from above

That is why it doesn't make sense to have pre-gain on the network unless it's split into the actual sources (linking, media server, streaming services, radio, etc).

Each of these network sources may have different gains and would need there own pre-gain. I know that would not be easy!

 

[rubato]

I've been using pre-gain as a way to balance the final volume in different rooms, so that setting the volume in the WHA to, say, 50 or 35 or 70 results in the same volume in each room. I do mostly multiroom playing and this is an easy to keep the volumes consistent. This probably isn't consistent with the documented purpose, but I don't see an output gain or post-gain anywhere.

I also experimented with adjusting the volume controls on individual speakers, but ran into various problems.

 

[harkpabst]

Each of these network sources may have different gains and would need there own pre-gain. I know that would not be easy!

Lyngdorf present different network based sources as different inputs, so you can normalise the volume independently.

E.g., Tidal, Spotify, Googlecast, Roon, AirPlay, vTuner and airable are all treated as different inputs. In addition, even every vTuner or airable radio station you save as a favourite presents an input on its own. Configuration is even very comfortable using their fantastic web GUI.

The clarity and straightforwardness might be impacted by the sheer number of supported music services, though.

@WiiM Team, thanks for taking care of the pre-gain topic with WiiM groups.

 

[hgo58]

In addition, even every vTuner or airable radio station you save as a favourite presents an input on its own.

Yes, that could be the way to handle it. Having pre-gain in Preset.

@WiiM Team, thanks for taking care of the pre-gain topic with WiiM groups.

Yes. Although a minor issue, it will be great to have it to to be a real "pre" function.

 

[tony.mav]

good morning I join this discussion to understand something more about the functionality of the pre gain ... I use my pro plus connected in coaxial to the audiolab 6000a with pre function connected in turn to the audiolab 8300xp power amplifier (input sensitivity 1100mV) ... the volume of the pro plus is set to 100% ... in the "audio input" function of the wiim there is the pre gain that adds up to 10 db and regulates the "pre gain" but I don't understand ... if the wiim volume is already at 100% in what way does this "pre gain" function induce an effective additional power to my 8000xp power amplifier? does it bypass my pre 6000a and add additional volume as if the wiim were also a preamplifier even if in my case the wiim is only in function as a streamer being connected in coaxial? ... I hope I explained well ... thanks

 

[harkpabst]

good morning I join this discussion to understand something more about the functionality of the pre gain ... I use my pro plus connected in coaxial to the audiolab 6000a with pre function connected in turn to the audiolab 8300xp power amplifier (input sensitivity 1100mV) ... the volume of the pro plus is set to 100% ... in the "audio input" function of the wiim there is the pre gain that adds up to 10 db and regulates the "pre gain" but I don't understand ... if the wiim volume is already at 100% in what way does this "pre gain" function induce an effective additional power to my 8000xp power amplifier? does it bypass my pre 6000a and add additional volume as if the wiim were also a preamplifier even if in my case the wiim is only in function as a streamer being connected in coaxial? ... I hope I explained well ... thanks

Hi, pre-gain works on the inputs, not on the output. The digital output cannot be any higher than 0 dBFS (of course), but it can only reach this level if the input is sufficiently "loud".

The basic idea behind pre-gain is to make all sources about equally loud so you don't have to adjust the volume just because you are switching between sources.

You would only ever increase the pre-gain to positive values when you know for sure that the respective source never reaches the full digital level of 0 dBFS. Typical examples may include phono stages connected to the analogue input or TV outputs (but it all depends on the actual device in question). Alternatively you canower the loudest sources to match the weaker ones.

Your 6000a will never be bypassed. The maximum digital output level of the WiiM Pro Plus can never be increased.