Separate PEQ for subwoofer channel

Blaze303

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Joined
Nov 6, 2024
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We have now separate L/R channels in PEQ which is great, but for me most of the filters are under crossover frequency. Maybe it would be possible to have separate set of filters for subwoofer? Or more than 10 PEQ filters?
Another good option would be to have expanded filter limit beyond +12db -12db, especially the low range, since we can limit max boost in REW, bot not max reduction. I could use the same filter two times to get lower value, but then comes a problem of not enough filters.
 
Upvote 2
I have bought a managed network switch and I'm going to experiment using a Wiim pro grouped to a Wiim Ultra to apply 10 band PEQ to my subwoofers.

I am going to use ethernet connections for both.
When I first started experimenting with a 2.2 setup, I tried grouping two WiiMs together, one for the speakers and one for the stereo subs. I found that I could sit there and rerun sweeps multiple times and the behavior around the crossover point would not be consistent. What this means is that two WiiMs, despite, “being synchronized,” do not manage to consistently match timing precisely enough to accurately function as an artificial crossover.

-Ed
 
When I first started experimenting with a 2.2 setup, I tried grouping two WiiMs together, one for the speakers and one for the stereo subs. I found that I could sit there and rerun sweeps multiple times and the behavior around the crossover point would not be consistent. What this means is that two WiiMs, despite, “being synchronized,” do not manage to consistently match timing precisely enough to accurately function as an artificial crossover.

-Ed
Thank you, I'm going to be tinkering with my system today, I'll save testing this for another day....... probably never.
 
Honestly this would be handy a seperate PEQ for subwoofer for one reason only imagine you want to use a BU2 high pass filter for main speakers and a LR4 for subwoofer (either by using sub integrated amp with dsp features) or using PEQ to achieve it. right now using PEQ with L/R or stereo you can set a HP filter with a Q of 0.70 or 0.71 best would be 0.707 which is a BU2 HP/LP filter (btw WIIM TEAM please make the Q's for LP and Hp to be 4 decimals or atleast 3 if possible) but then in the sub out page if you use main bypass or sub bypass it would still be affected by the PEQ HP/LP filters rendering what I would like to do impossible.

I was trying to bypass main speakers and use a HP filter at left/right channel PEQ at crossover frequency with a Q of 0.71 however if I do this I suppose sub out will have that HP aswell so leaving me with no option to recreate different sloped filters, as they would affect both sub and main speakers regardless of any options in sub out page using bypass or the HP/LP filters using the PEQ page. Since I could then simply use my sub LPF which has different slopes.

I wanted sub with LR4 and speakers with BU2 at crossover but no matter what I do it's not possible at the moment.

edit: by the way I'm using wiim ultra.
 
... right now using PEQ with L/R or stereo you can set a HP filter with a Q of 0.70 or 0.71 best would be 0.707 ...
You won't be able to detect any difference between 0.707 and 0.71 (or 0.7). The exact value would be 1/sqrt(2), which is an infinit number. Where to stop?
 
Let's wait and see in which order these features will come (back).

I still see no real advantage in PEQ filters reserved for sub out, only.

Plenty of reasons why it's superior, you want each of the three channels to be independent, with no EQ effecting the others.

The combined L/R correction is bad as the left & right will have different responses.
You don't want to use a PEQ for the left & right for it to effect the subwoofer
You don't want subwoofer PEQ to effect the left & right.
The speakers may not need any correction at all, so you just want sub EQ only. Or you use L/R pre outs or subwoofer pre out through external PEQ so you only want to correct specific channel. Ie if you have a antimode for sub you want the subwoofer channel uncorrected.
Or if you run L/R through a minidsp or similar then you want L/R unaltered but then you only use the wiim to correct subwoofer
 
Plenty of reasons why it's superior, you want each of the three channels to be independent, with no EQ effecting the others.

The combined L/R correction is bad as the left & right will have different responses.
You don't want to use a PEQ for the left & right for it to effect the subwoofer
You don't want subwoofer PEQ to effect the left & right.
The speakers may not need any correction at all, so you just want sub EQ only. Or you use L/R pre outs or subwoofer pre out through external PEQ so you only want to correct specific channel. Ie if you have a antimode for sub you want the subwoofer channel uncorrected.
Or if you run L/R through a minidsp or similar then you want L/R unaltered but then you only use the wiim to correct subwoofer
Lots of different topics, I still see no reason to reserve bands to the sub. If your intention was to provide theses reasons then the explanation was exceeding my limited horizon.
 
Plenty of reasons why it's superior, you want each of the three channels to be independent, with no EQ effecting the others.
IMHO it is not that clear-cut, and I personally agree with @harkpabst on this. Let me explain why.

The combined L/R correction is bad as the left & right will have different responses.
You can have either combined ("stereo") or individual channel ("L/R") PEQs. So different correction for left and right channel is possible already.

You don't want to use a PEQ for the left & right for it to effect the subwoofer
You don't want subwoofer PEQ to effect the left & right.
Can you explain exactly why not?

Note that we hear a combined speaker+sub response at the listening position anyway, and actually it is easier to get a smooth total response if you apply room correction to the combined speaker+sub response. On the other hand, if you had the ability to EQ the sub and speaker individually there's really no guarantee that a smooth sub response + a smooth loudspeaker response would always result a smooth summed response at the crossover. From that perspective you could also argue that it is a "superior" approach to EQ the combined speaker+sub response.

Let's think of it another way - integrating a subwoofer is like adding another "way", e.g. adding a sub to a 2-way system makes it effectively a 3-way system. If EQ-ing the sub 'way' separately is always "superior", why is it OK to EQ both 'ways' in a loudspeaker with a single PEQ channel?

You may also note that many professional (studio and live sound) subwoofers have integrated crossovers with LPF applied to the sub and HPF applied to on the line outs. In such system you just connect the source to the line in on the sub, speakers to the sub line out, and as a result you can only EQ the total system response. It is basically equivalent to the approach that the WiiM devices use - again showing that it is a very valid approach.

The speakers may not need any correction at all, so you just want sub EQ only.
Or if you run L/R through a minidsp or similar then you want L/R unaltered but then you only use the wiim to correct subwoofer
In that case you can apply PEQ only under the crossover frequency. You can do this in the current implementation already.

Or you use L/R pre outs or subwoofer pre out through external PEQ so you only want to correct specific channel. Ie if you have a antimode for sub you want the subwoofer channel uncorrected.
You can either just apply PEQ only over the crossover frequency or disable the "Subwoofer Calibration" option in RoomFit. You can do this in the current implementation already.

To clarify my position, I don't think it would necessarily be bad to have separate EQ for the sub, but I see it just as a different approach to the same problem. There are some benefits to either approach, but both can also achieve similar results if applied correctly.

But there is one thing I'd personally like to see - I'd like to be able to measure the Left speaker, Right speaker and Sub responses individually with e.g. REW. This would be very useful to be able to manually determine the delays and phase settings when optimizing sub integration. But I realize this is probably difficult to implement with what is in effect a stereo playback device.
 
I think there is plenty of processing headroom left in the Ultra and it totally would make sense to handle EQ like it is done in speaker management systems. I've been using Xilicas for years and this is the only way to fully integrated subs with tops/fronts, especially if they are positioned in different locations of one room:

1st level:
  1. input EQ for over all correction/sounding (to be done after dialing in level 2)

2nd level:
  1. Output EQ with crossover options (HP/LP in LR/BW and individual slope)
  2. Then Filters (PEQ,AP,LS,HS)
  3. Delay setting
It is all available in the Wiim app but sorted strangely and therefore it lacks functionality.

So +1 one from me to have it tweaked/sorted. Would be willing to apply for beta testing
 
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