Show a single entry for compilation albums in App USB Media Library Album view

[pbutler68]

I have all my music on a USB stick connected to a Wiim Ultra. I want to browse the USB Media Library through the Album view. Where an album has a single artist for all tracks, it shows once in the album view, but when there are multiple artists on an album, there are multiple entries for the album, which means I can't play the whole album easily. Is there a way I can update the metadata or do something so I can see a single album entry? I don't want to overwrite the actual song artist, if possible, and I can't use the folder view as that is artist. Thanks, Paul

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I have all my music on a USB stick connected to a Wiim Ultra. I want to browse the USB Media Library through the Album view. Where an album has a single artist for all tracks, it shows once in the album view, but when there are multiple artists on an album, there are multiple entries for the album, which means I can't play the whole album easily. Is there a way I can update the metadata or do something so I can see a single album entry? I don't want to overwrite the actual song artist, if possible, and I can't use the folder view as that is artist. Thanks, Paul

When you say “I can’t user folder view as that is artist”, what do you mean?

 

[pbutler68]

When you say “I can’t user folder view as that is artist”, what do you mean?

Hi Steve, because my music on the original NAS is organised by artist, and artists are spread over multiple albums, the folder view usually doesn't represent the original CD/album. Hope that explains it.

 

[slartibartfast]

Hi Steve, because my music on the original NAS is organised by artist, and artists are spread over multiple albums, the folder view usually doesn't represent the original CD/album. Hope that explains it.

So you don't have compilation albums in a single folder. Why would you do that?

 

[pbutler68]

It's a bit more complicated - if an album is flagged as a compilation it does have a folder of its own - so I could play everything in the album. But if it's not a compilation, but an artist's album with guests, e.g. Calvin Harris' 18 Months album - it's not got a single folder, and in the album view it shows up 11 times, because 10 of the tracks are "Calvin Harris Featuring ....". Hope that makes sense.

 

[slartibartfast]

It's a bit more complicated - if an album is flagged as a compilation it does have a folder of its own - so I could play everything in the album. But if it's not a compilation, but an artist's album with guests, e.g. Calvin Harris' 18 Months album - it's not got a single folder, and in the album view it shows up 11 times, because 10 of the tracks are "Calvin Harris Featuring ....". Hope that makes sense.

I would just put all the tracks in the same folder and rely on tags for the track artist info.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

It's a bit more complicated - if an album is flagged as a compilation it does have a folder of its own - so I could play everything in the album. But if it's not a compilation, but an artist's album with guests, e.g. Calvin Harris' 18 Months album - it's not got a single folder, and in the album view it shows up 11 times, because 10 of the tracks are "Calvin Harris Featuring ....". Hope that makes sense.

So this is what I've found.

When I first ripped my CD collection (a task from which I still bear scars), clearly it was far easier to stick to one folder structure, rather than changing it from rip to rip. This is still the structure I have on my NAS. And if I buy a new CD (not so common these days), that's still where it goes.

But it's a big old NAS with lots of room, so I have a separate folder in it (and backed up elsewhere), with my WiiM USB stick structure "For WiiM USB". I've copied everything into there, then created my own structure.

In it I can do what I want, and duplicates aren't an issue. I don't have any Calvin Harris, but if I did, I'd have a Calvin Harris folder. And I'd stick 18 months in there as one album folder, because if I wanted to listen to Calvin Harris, I'd probably want 18 Months in the same place as all his other stuff. Obviously, if when you've ripped that album, and for whatever reason it's ripped into different folders, it's pretty easy to just stick them all in one folder.

It takes a short while at first, but unless you have 500 CD albums, and every one is similarly containing guests, it shouldn't be too bad.

And I'd rename that folder "Harris, Calvin". And I'd put it in the 'H' folder (or for me it's the "F-L" folder).

And let's say you have a Kelis folder. You can copy the 18 Months album folder into that, and delete all the non-Kelis tracks from it (or not, if you think you might want to listen to them all if you're in that mood). Up to you.

And if you want to create a separate "Harris, Calvin and Kelis" folder, you can. And if you wanted to create a "Kelis and Calvin Harris" folder, you can.

Or you don't have to. Or you can do them all, or just one, or whatever combination you want. Pick and choose, you're in control.

You'll then only ever have to use folder view again, with the exception of if if you have a track on a compilation, and you can't remember which compilation. In that case, go to track/song view, and search the track title.

Once you get your head round it, it's very liberating indeed.

You don't have to change your original rip settings, either. You can keep it exactly as it is. And if you buy a new CD, you just have to copy that one CD over into your "For WiiM USB" folder.

 

[pbutler68]

So this is what I've found.

When I first ripped my CD collection (a task from which I still bear scars), clearly it was far easier to stick to one folder structure, rather than changing it from rip to rip. This is still the structure I have on my NAS. And if I buy a new CD (not so common these days), that's still where it goes.

But it's a big old NAS with lots of room, so I have a separate folder in it (and backed up elsewhere), with my WiiM USB stick structure "For WiiM USB". I've copied everything into there, then created my own structure.

In it I can do what I want, and duplicates aren't an issue. I don't have any Calvin Harris, but if I did, I'd have a Calvin Harris folder. And I'd stick 18 months in there as one album folder, because if I wanted to listen to Calvin Harris, I'd probably want 18 Months in the same place as all his other stuff. Obviously, if when you've ripped that album, and for whatever reason it's ripped into different folders, it's pretty easy to just stick them all in one folder.

It takes a short while at first, but unless you have 500 CD albums, and every one is similarly containing guests, it shouldn't be too bad.

And I'd rename that folder "Harris, Calvin". And I'd put it in the 'H' folder (or for me it's the "F-L" folder).

And let's say you have a Kelis folder. You can copy the 18 Months album folder into that, and delete all the non-Kelis tracks from it (or not, if you think you might want to listen to them all if you're in that mood). Up to you.

And if you want to create a separate "Harris, Calvin and Kelis" folder, you can. And if you wanted to create a "Kelis and Calvin Harris" folder, you can.

Or you don't have to. Or you can do them all, or just one, or whatever combination you want. Pick and choose, you're in control.

You'll then only ever have to use folder view again, with the exception of if if you have a track on a compilation, and you can't remember which compilation. In that case, go to track/song view, and search the track title.

Once you get your head round it, it's very liberating indeed.

You don't have to change your original rip settings, either. You can keep it exactly as it is. And if you buy a new CD, you just have to copy that one CD over into your "For WiiM USB" folder.

Wow - thanks Steve - that is very comprehensive, I'll have a think about doing that. I have nearly 1800 albums, though.

I've found a bit of a workaround - if I update all songs (files) in an album with mixed artists, so that the "Album Artist" is the same, then when I copy that over to the USB stick, put it in the Wiim Ultra, and reindex, I see the album just once. I do all the metadata editing in MacOS Music app that writes directly to the NAS. This way it doesn't overwrite the Artist field. It's a bit of a sledgehammer approach, but for for albums by one artist where they just have guests, it's much better.

Thanks again everyone for your suggestions - what a great community!

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Wow - thanks Steve - that is very comprehensive, I'll have a think about doing that. I have nearly 1800 albums, though.

I've found a bit of a workaround - if I update all songs (files) in an album with mixed artists, so that the "Album Artist" is the same, then when I copy that over to the USB stick, put it in the Wiim Ultra, and reindex, I see the album just once. I do all the metadata editing in MacOS Music app that writes directly to the NAS. This way it doesn't overwrite the Artist field. It's a bit of a sledgehammer approach, but for for albums by one artist where they just have guests, it's much better.

Thanks again everyone for your suggestions - what a great community!

Just one more thing. One of the best aspects of the flexibility is the ability to treat similar situations in different ways for different artists.

Example, I'm a fan of a couple of '80s bands whose singers went on to solo careers, Faith Brothers (singer Billy Franks) and The Alarm (singer Mike Peters, though guitarist Dave Sharp also had a solo career).

In both instances, compilations have been released containing both original band and solo artist's music on. To further muddy the waters, Mike Peters has released material under the old Alarm name, though often slightly changed to 'Alarm mm'. and yes throw that into the mix with compilations, too.

The options open to you are endless. Separate folders for 'Franks, Billy' and 'Faith Brothers'. A third folder for 'Faith Brothers and Billy Franks'. Just one folder for 'Faith Brothers and Billy Franks', containing sub-folders for each. And a third sub-folder for releases containing both. Any release containing both can be put in just that folder, or in all three.

Meanwhile, you can treat The Alarm/Mike Peters exactly the same. Or completely differently.

It's simply not possible to have that degree of flexibility with tags.

The only issues are firstly, that, you need a big enough drive to contain all the duplicates, and secondly that, on the odd occasion you leave folder view to search for something you can't find, there are more items to wade through, with multiple duplicates of the same track. But then again, we have that already. If you have a sizeable 'Various Artists' section, you'll have Brown Eyed Girl several times (and Mr. Morrison still won't make a penny from any of them).

 

[simbun]

It's simply not possible to have that degree of flexibility with tags.

Maybe not with WiiMs indexing, but a lot of servers support multi-value AlbumArtist tags without having to resort to duplication, which should absolutely be avoided.

 

[slartibartfast]

It's simply not possible to have that degree of flexibility with tags.

It must be possible with the right combination of track artist and album artist tags.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Maybe not with WiiMs indexing, but a lot of servers support multi-value AlbumArtist tags without having to resort to duplication, which should absolutely be avoided.

“Should absolutely be avoided” because?

As for “Maybe not with WiiM…” I wonder if you’ve noticed which forum we’re at.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

It must be possible with the right combination of track artist and album artist tags.

If you have a compilation like “Best of Mike Peters and The Alarm”, yes you can obviously tag album artists as that, but individual album artist as either/or.

But then, if you search for The Alarm, you won’t get the Mike Peters tracks.

So if you want them all, you have to search for the album. But if you only get the results for that album, you don’t get to view it in the context of either The Alarm or Mike Peters’ other albums.

If you put that compilation in both folders, and use folder view, it’s not a problem.

I always go back to how we’d arrange our LPs and CDs, and the vast majority of people do so alphabetically by album. But the limitation is that, unless you buy multiple copies of an album, it’s got to go in one place.

Folder view with duplicates takes the best of what we all found to be the best way of organising, only ironing out the few issues.

And as I often say, your tag views are still there. You’re not stopped from using that when you want.

But the vast, vast, vast majority of time, people prefer to look for releases by artist, sorted alphabetically, with everything by that artist available in that one place.

Finally, the great thing for be is that I’m not constantly changing the view from artist to album to song, etc., etc. it’s folder view 99% of the time, and track/song view/search on the rare occasion I can’t remember where a track is.

Using tags, by definition, means swapping between tags.

 

[harkpabst]

As for “Maybe not with WiiM…” I wonder if you’ve noticed which forum we’re at.

Great to hear you're committed to WiiM for a lifetime.

Using tags, by definition, means swapping between tags.

Using tags by definition means you can view your collection from whatever aspect is relevant to you. This might just always be the same aspect (making it no worse than folder view) or changing aspects depending on mood, level if familiarity with the music you want to listen to, or simply somebody else in the family preferring a different way to do it. You might call this "swapping between tags" but in the end it's just more degrees of freedom.

Most importantly ...

And as I often say, your tag views are still there. You’re not stopped from using that when you want.

... there's both, so each to their own. I don't even think I would or should convince you of something you clearly don't want.

Just don't tell me folders were "more flexible" just because they suit you.

 

[slartibartfast]

If you have a compilation like “Best of Mike Peters and The Alarm”, yes you can obviously tag album artists as that, but individual album artist as either/or.

But then, if you search for The Alarm, you won’t get the Mike Peters tracks.

So if you want them all, you have to search for the album. But if you only get the results for that album, you don’t get to view it in the context of either The Alarm or Mike Peters’ other albums.

If you put that compilation in both folders, and use folder view, it’s not a problem.

I always go back to how we’d arrange our LPs and CDs, and the vast majority of people do so alphabetically by album. But the limitation is that, unless you buy multiple copies of an album, it’s got to go in one place.

Folder view with duplicates takes the best of what we all found to be the best way of organising, only ironing out the few issues.

And as I often say, your tag views are still there. You’re not stopped from using that when you want.

But the vast, vast, vast majority of time, people prefer to look for releases by artist, sorted alphabetically, with everything by that artist available in that one place.

Finally, the great thing for be is that I’m not constantly changing the view from artist to album to song, etc., etc. it’s folder view 99% of the time, and track/song view/search on the rare occasion I can’t remember where a track is.

Using tags, by definition, means swapping between tags.

You can tag more than one Album Artist. No idea how. WiiM Home app handles that but other servers can.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Great to hear you're committed to WiiM for a lifetime.


Using tags by definition means you can view your collection from whatever aspect is relevant to you. This might just always be the same aspect (making it no worse than folder view) or changing aspects depending on mood, level if familiarity with the music you want to listen to, or simply somebody else in the family preferring a different way to do it. You might call this "swapping between tags" but in the end it's just more degrees of freedom.

Most importantly ...

... there's both, so each to their own. I don't even think I would or should convince you of something you clearly don't want.

Just don't tell me folders were "more flexible" just because they suit you.

But they are.

I don't think there's a single thing I can't do in folder view, other than searching for an individual track. Maybe wanting to just play a certain genre? I never do that, but I could still do that if I wanted. As I say, if you create a folder structure that's exactly as you want, you can easily just go to folder view 99% of the time. But using tags for other more exotic purposes is still there.

If I were to suddenly decide I hated using folder view, and wanted to move to other views, I could do that at a click of a mouse. But if you're used to browsing by tags, then suddenly want to move to folder view, then start from scratch.

BTW, as for sticking with WiiM for a lifetime, you've made my point for me.

If you have your music stored for use in folder view, and you move from WiiM to something else, it'll still be there. If I'm not with WiiM for a lifetime, it won't make the slightest bit of difference.

But, as @simbun has noted above, there are some tags which don't work with WiiM, and indeed don't with all systems. So some people will be used to a certain way of using tags, which won't work with a WiiM. Their set up has not, as you put it, one which they should have committed to for a lifetime.

Folder view works with everything. But not all tags work with all systems. Indeed, if you'd set up your music to work in a certain way, then moved to WiiM, it may well be back to square one.

And finally, I'm not trying to convince anyone to move to folder view any more than others are trying to persuade a move away from that. All of us can only offer the method we use, why we use, it's pros and cons, examples, and let others decide for themselves.

For me, using my method, I've never once felt a any sort of disadvantage, or that it doesn't do exactly what I want it to do, or inconvenienced or hindered in any way , shape or form. And when browsing my music, it looks exactly how I want it to.

What's not to like.

 

[simbun]

“Should absolutely be avoided” because?

Apart from the obvious storage and maintenance overheads, if you do ever start using tag view you'll be polluting the search results with duplicates.

As for “Maybe not with WiiM…” I wonder if you’ve noticed which forum we’re at.

I don't think WiiM see a future where everyone uses the onboard indexing.
I doubt it'll ever happen but it would be interesting to see some stats around local content usage

 

[simbun]

I don't think there's a single thing I can't do in folder view, other than searching for an individual track.

One of the fundamentals is Recently Added, I would have thought.

 

[harkpabst]

If you have your music stored for use in folder view, and you move from WiiM to something else, it'll still be there.

Surprise: Tags will still be there, too. And might work even better.

As @simbun said, WiiM surely don't plan to develop their indexing and index handling to become the state of the art. It's just an additional offer, independent of folder structure.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

One of the fundamentals is Recently Added, I would have thought.

You are aware that that's the easiest thing to do. And better! You just add a folder - I call it 'top of the player' (as in when you used to have a CD player, and any new CD would like in a small pile on top of it, until you filed it away).

So if you buy a new CD, rip it, stick a copy in the artist folder, stick a copy in 'top of the player'. folder. When you stop playing it all the time, delete it from the latter.

Only it's better. Because that pile of CDs weren't all recent purchases, were they. Sometimes, they were CDs you'd had a while, and rediscovered. They don't get picked up by a 'recently added' tag.