Sub question?

[Kblade97]

An opinion based on the difficulty in matching the speaker natural roll off to the sub low pass filter. I could never get mine sounding right before I got the WiiM Amp.

And I don’t have that problem whatsoever. The sub out on the NAD is going to be have higher quality signal than the ultra all in one box doing many things. Also, I believe you’re making it more difficult for set up because you’re trying to get the sub to go up to where you cut off the frequency response of your mains. Makes for a way more difficult set up in my opinion. now, if we’re talking about home theater, it could be different. For example, below I cross over my Revel F208 at 60 Hz and then tuck the sub underneath them, but that’s for home theater. And I’m talking about Dirac doing that I’m not. It’s the software doing it for home theater

 

[harkpabst]

The sub out on the NAD is going to be have higher quality signal than the ultra all in one box doing many things

That's another bold claim, but no proof. What kind of "quality" do you expect here? It's a subwoofer signal ...

Also, I believe you’re making it more difficult for set up because you’re trying to get the sub to go up to where you cut off the frequency response of your mains. Makes for a way more difficult set up in my opinion.

Literally the contrary. Far more easy setup, reducing distortion of the main speakers.

 

[Kblade97]

That's another bold claim, but no proof. What kind of "quality" do you expect here? It's a subwoofer signal ...


Literally the contrary. Far more easy setup, reducing distortion of the main speakers.

Where is your proof and again are we talking about music or home theater. Which was not stated in the OP’s original comment.

 

[harkpabst]

It's a stereo amp, no reference to HT.

And I don't agree at all that with a single sub the setup had to be different for HT and for music. That's simply not the case.

EQ can do whatever you might need for different sound.

Where is your proof ...

Proof for what? I'm referring to the way companies like WiiM or Lyngdorf are dealing with sub setups. It's the current state of the art. You just showed how you do it differently, so what? If you're happy with your setup that's all fine. Maybe there is no better way to setup your devices, I don't know (but I'm not convinced).

I already explained in detail why high pass filtering the mains is beneficial.

 

[Jamesw72]

Hi all,

Thank you for your replies..

So is the consensus leave it plugged into the Ultra or the Amp or just try both

 

[slartibartfast]

And I don’t have that problem whatsoever. The sub out on the NAD is going to be have higher quality signal than the ultra all in one box doing many things. Also, I believe you’re making it more difficult for set up because you’re trying to get the sub to go up to where you cut off the frequency response of your mains. Makes for a way more difficult set up in my opinion. now, if we’re talking about home theater, it could be different. For example, below I cross over my Revel F208 at 60 Hz and then tuck the sub underneath them, but that’s for home theater. And I’m talking about Dirac doing that I’m not. It’s the software doing it for home theater

If your sub is only working between 28Hz and 11Hz is it even possible to know if it is properly integrated with mains?

 

[Kblade97]

It's a stereo amp, no reference to HT.

And I don't agree at all that with a single sub the setup had to be different for HT and for music. That's simply not the case.

EQ can do whatever you might need for different sound.

Proof for what? I'm referring to the way companies like WiiM or Lyngdorf are dealing with sub setups. It's the current state of the art. You just showed how you do it differently, so what? If you're happy with your setup that's all fine. Maybe there is no better way to setup your devices, I don't know (but I'm not convinced).

I already explained in detail why high pass filtering the mains is beneficial.

And that’s fine and like I said that’s your opinion. Not sure about the sota thing. And all you’re doing is proving you’re believing what the companies are telling you. Like I believe rel high-level input is not as good as using a line level input in my opinion even though the output impedance is so high on the rel of the the amplifier has no idea you’re on the speaker taps. And I’m sure there’s people on here that would agree with me and you about that. And I would consider REL SOTA so it’s your opinion to mine. Look, I love WiiM I’m not sure we’re talking about SOTA here. Lyngdorf either. Agree to disagree

 

[harkpabst]

So is the consensus leave it plugged into the Ultra or the Amp or just try both

I don't see too much consensus yet, so just speaking for myself.

If you have other sources (like a turntable) connected to the C 368 I would probably recommend to start with its subwoofer output and also enable high pass filtering. Unfortunately I don't know if it supports latency settings like the Ultra does, but you still have the phase knob on the sub, should that setting be missing. You should set the Ultra to fixed output voltage in this scenario.

If the Ultra is more or less your only source (or you have additional sources connected to the Ultra, because you want to take advantage of EQ and room correction) it makes more sense to connect the sub to the Ultra and keep the C 368 at a fixed level instead.

Don't use the high level input on the Gravis I. Go with the RCA connection in either case.

 

[dangermouse]

That’s an opinion

Not really. It's generally accepted as best practice nowadays.

 

[Kblade97]

If your sub is only working between 28Hz and 11Hz is it even possible to know if it is properly integrated with mains?

Yeah just like you are sure your way is. I listen

 

[Kblade97]

Not really. It's generally accepted as best practice nowadays.

So go with the crowd because it’s generally accepted. OK. Again are we talking music or home theater?

 

[harkpabst]

Like I believe rel high-level input is not as good as using a line level input in my opinion even though the output impedance is so high on the rel of the the amplifier has no idea you’re on the speaker taps. And I’m sure there’s people on here that would agree with me and you about that. And I would consider REL SOTA so it’s your opinion to mine.

We already did agree on that, did you notice it?

High pass filtering the mains is good. It removes thermal stress from the mains, limits excursion of the driver and thus reduces THD and IMD. Facts, not be believing anyone.

Also, there's no such thing as a defined "natural roll-off" of a speaker. It all depends on the room and speaker placement. Unless you measure for yourself you have no idea what the real accoustical roll-off is. Even if you know, chances are it doesn't follow a clean filter slope. For these reasons it's better to split between the sub and mains noticeably higher than the lowest frequencies the mains may support (up to a certain level ...).

 

[Kblade97]

If your sub is only working between 28Hz and 11Hz is it even possible to know if it is properly integrated with mains?

So what you’re saying is put a cheap crossover filter in line with my Sonos Faber Extremas.And Jack with their frequency response by not letting them run full range. I don’t think so. I’m not sure you’ve ever heard these speakers before, but you would never want to do that in a two channel music set up with these speakers. Maybe if I was using Dirac I would do that, but my room has been designed for said speakers.

 

[Kblade97]

We already did agree on that, did you notice it?

High pass filtering the mains is good. It removes thermal stress from the mains, limits excursion of the driver and thus reduces THD and IMD. Facts, not be believing anyone.

Also, there's no such thing as a defined "natural roll-off" of a speaker. It all depends on the room and speaker placement. Unless you measure for yourself you have no idea what the real accoustical roll-off is. Even if you know, chances are it doesn't follow a clean filter slope. For these reasons it's better to split between the sub and mains noticeably higher than the lowest frequencies the mains may support (up to a certain level ...).

Nope

 

[slartibartfast]

So what you’re saying is put a cheap crossover filter in line with my Sonos Faber Extremas.And Jack with their frequency response by not letting them run full range. I don’t think so. I’m not sure you’ve ever heard these speakers before, but you would never want to do that in a two channel music set up with these speakers. Maybe if I was using Dirac I would do that, but my room has been designed for said speakers.

No, I was thinking that if I had those speakers I probably wouldn't use a sub at all

 

[harkpabst]

Nope

Yep.

Discussion done.

 

[harkpabst]

No, I was thinking that if I had those speakers I probably wouldn't use a sub at all

I certainly would.

 

[Kblade97]

No, I was thinking that if I had those speakers I probably wouldn't use a sub at all

Which proves to me, you don’t understand the application we were talking about, or my speakers or my sub. A good sub is not just about adding bass. A bass can guitar can have a leading edge transients out to 30K. A good sub opens up the soundstage and the mid- range and extends the treble. Again it’s not about adding more bass or thump. Again, music or Home theater

 

[harkpabst]

A good sub extends the treble ...

Thanks for confirming my fears.

 

[slartibartfast]

Which proves to me, you don’t understand the application we were talking about, or my speakers or my sub. A good sub is not just about adding bass. A bass can guitar can have a leading edge transients out to 30K. A good sub opens up the soundstage and the mid- range and extends the treble. Again it’s not about adding more bass or thump. Again, music or Home theater

A good sub extends the treble. I've heard it all now.