Thank you WiiM, but mild concerns for the future

[Steve Woodhouse]

Well, for the moment I'm pretty much done with getting my WiiMs set up. My PC/speaker/Ultra and Mini/Headphone Amp is all going strong, USB attached to the Ultra, accessible with the Mini too, all excellent.

On the horizon, the possibility of Minis for elsewhere in the house, and maybe an Amp/Pro under the 2nd lounge TV (with possibly yet another Mini for surround duties, as we see how that plays out), but that's all gravy.

Whilst I'm completely happy, nay ecstatic, with what I have, I do have a slight concern for the future. I've had a Sonos for quite a few years, and I've seen issues come and go. There was a point where they were pretty much saying old models would be obsolete/not updated, and there've been all sorts of shenanigans lately with the app.

Just reading the threads at these forums, it's astonishing how many bizarre little features, quirks, updates, requests, etc. there are for WiiM. You read any update page, and it's often a list of features I'd never use, many I've not even heard of. The complexity is astonishing.

It would appear that Ye Olde Dayes ™ of a source with Play, Pause, Next/Ffwd, Prev/Rwnd, Stop, an On/Off button and volume control and...well, that's it - works from when you buy it for life with no updates, well those Dayes have gone.

But the more complex a set-up is, the more it needs to be updated/supported, for when new PCs, new versions of Windows, new iPhones/iPads, versions of iOS, new routers, arrive. And the more proactive WiiM (or any company) are at bringing in new/better features and products, the less likely it is that something like the WiiM App (one app to rule all your WiMs) is going to be possible. And as new products come online, old ones become obsolete and abandoned, with no new firmware updates, and the old firmware not working with whatever else is going on in the world.

So thank you WiiM, I love my set ups. They're by far and away the best I've ever had, most advanced, most versatile, most user friendly, and best value for money systems I've had in 40 years of Hi-Fi. But please don't let them become obsolete.

 

[castalla]

Well, for the moment I'm pretty much done with getting my WiiMs set up. My PC/speaker/Ultra and Mini/Headphone Amp is all going strong, USB attached to the Ultra, accessible with the Mini too, all excellent.

On the horizon, the possibility of Minis for elsewhere in the house, and maybe an Amp/Pro under the 2nd lounge TV (with possibly yet another Mini for surround duties, as we see how that plays out), but that's all gravy.

Whilst I'm completely happy, nay ecstatic, with what I have, I do have a slight concern for the future. I've had a Sonos for quite a few years, and I've seen issues come and go. There was a point where they were pretty much saying old models would be obsolete/not updated, and there've been all sorts of shenanigans lately with the app.

Just reading the threads at these forums, it's astonishing how many bizarre little features, quirks, updates, requests, etc. there are for WiiM. You read any update page, and it's often a list of features I'd never use, many I've not even heard of. The complexity is astonishing.

It would appear that Ye Olde Dayes ™ of a source with Play, Pause, Next/Ffwd, Prev/Rwnd, Stop, an On/Off button and volume control and...well, that's it - works from when you buy it for life with no updates, well those Dayes have gone.

But the more complex a set-up is, the more it needs to be updated/supported, for when new PCs, new versions of Windows, new iPhones/iPads, versions of iOS, new routers, arrive. And the more proactive WiiM (or any company) are at bringing in new/better features and products, the less likely it is that something like the WiiM App (one app to rule all your WiMs) is going to be possible. And as new products come online, old ones become obsolete and abandoned, with no new firmware updates, and the old firmware not working with whatever else is going on in the world.

So thank you WiiM, I love my set ups. They're by far and away the best I've ever had, most advanced, most versatile, most user friendly, and best value for money systems I've had in 40 years of Hi-Fi. But please don't let them become obsolete.

Why should they become obsolete? I use Lyrion (formerly Logitech Media Server). Logitech stopped producing physical devices over 10 years ago. The software is now open source - I use it to 'power' Wiims, Sonos, & other audio players - it even plays CDs to all my audio endpoints. No obsolescense here

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Why should they become obsolete? I use Lyrion (formerly Logitech Media Server). Logitech stopped producing physical devices over 10 years ago. The software is now open source - I use it to 'power' Wiims, Sonos, & other audio players - it even plays CDs to all my audio endpoints. No obsolescense here

Just see what happened with Sonos.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this will definitely happen with WiiM, but there's always that niggling doubt.

 

[Zap Rekowski]

I had relied on Panasonic AllPlay ("future-proof" Qualcomm technology) more than 10 years ago... No support, no more updates. Since 2022 (since the first purchase of the WiiM Mini ) the stuff has been lying in the drawers in the attic as precious scrap...

 

[Skull]

Just see what happened with Sonos.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this will definitely happen with WiiM, but there's always that niggling doubt.

I am using all my Sonos speakers still but with the WiiM ultra as my music source and sono+ widget app for grouping and volume.
I didn’t update my software and am still on 16.1 for both app and firmware.
I don’t use the Sonos app at all even though it probably works
So no obsolete Sonos speakers yet
At least until they stop working

 

[guy48065]

Why should they become obsolete? I use Lyrion (formerly Logitech Media Server). Logitech stopped producing physical devices over 10 years ago. The software is now open source - I use it to 'power' Wiims, Sonos, & other audio players - it even plays CDs to all my audio endpoints. No obsolescense here

Because LMS became open source it's just dying a much slower death than it could have.
"Support" totally relies on the generosity of a handful of people.

 

[castalla]

Because LMS became open source it's just dying a much slower death than it could have.
"Support" totally relies on the generosity of a handful of people.

Reports of its demise are exaggerated. Commercial support relies on the generosity of the chief financial officers... No less certain than open source.

 

[slartibartfast]

Because LMS became open source it's just dying a much slower death than it could have.
"Support" totally relies on the generosity of a handful of people.

LMS has been open source for years now and is in better shape now than it was under Logitech control. Ask Musical Fidelity Encore buyers how they feel about their expensive products becoming obsolete. Some of them have found a second life because of LMS.

 

[Qnots]

Because LMS became open source it's just dying a much slower death than it could have.
"Support" totally relies on the generosity of a handful of people.

LMS did not become open source, it was open source from the beginning when it was distributed along with the very first SLIMP3 by Slim Devices, which was later acquired by Logitech.

 

[Hiphiman]

We all know that the risk of obsolescence with ‘future-fi’ products is inherently far in excess of traditional hifi separates. In some respects we are already witnessing it with WiiM devices, with the Mini not receiving features that the other products are. Of course, this is due to hardware limitations in the Mini and so is perfectly understandable, but it does show how older products can quickly fall behind newer ones.
My philosophy is we just have to accept the risk but the one action I can take to mitigate it is to avoid spending thousands on products (streamers and the like) that could be affected. In that sense, WiiM devices are well placed because if the worst happens then the loss will be minimised and, in fact, it might be another WiiM product that replaces it. It helps that the cost of streamers, especially with external DACs, do not have as large an influence on sound quality as price does for other hifi components in the chain.

 

[twm]

Simply buy dumb audio gear and devices like the WiiM mini and pro to make them smart. I agree that there is a certain danger of WiiM products becoming more like Sonos, but with dumb audio gear the financial damage is somewhat limited.

 

[castalla]

Simply buy dumb audio gear and devices like the WiiM mini and pro to make them smart. I agree that there is a certain danger of WiiM products becoming more like Sonos, but with dumb audio gear the financial damage is somewhat limited.

Over at the Naim forum they're often arguing over the merits of audio & ethernet cables which cost 100s per metre - a whole other world of audiophile big-spenders... For them, Wiim products are not even toy status.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Simply buy dumb audio gear and devices like the WiiM mini and pro to make them smart. I agree that there is a certain danger of WiiM products becoming more like Sonos, but with dumb audio gear the financial damage is somewhat limited.

Obviously, my amp, speakers, and sub are all 'dumb', in this respect.

 

[Burnside]

It’s the chance you take, or the inevitability, when buying most electronic gear - it will at some point become unsupported, unsupportable or not economically repairable.

 

[castalla]

It’s the chance you take, or the inevitability, when buying most electronic gear - it will at some point become unsupported, unsupportable or not economically repairable.

My squeezebox radios are still plodding on, as are some Sonos devices. Overall, I've found most devices long lasting apart from mobile phones (or the Devil's little helpers, as I see them).

 

[slartibartfast]

My squeezebox radios are still plodding on, as are some Sonos devices. Overall, I've found most devices long lasting apart from mobile phones (or the Devil's little helpers, as I see them).

I would expect an amplifier to be long lasting as well.

 

[cooky560]

It’s the chance you take, or the inevitability, when buying most electronic gear - it will at some point become unsupported, unsupportable or not economically repairable.

True, but less so with “traditional” hifi. My 1972 Sherwood s7200 is as well supported as it was in 1972.

The “computer drive” in my vintage technics I can still get serviced locally, same for my bigger amps.

RCA is not going away.

It doesn’t matter so much with Wiim even if the app does stop supporting it, as connect from tidal, Spotify, google home etc will support it years after

The more kit becomes a “system on a chip” the harder it becomes to sort out as they often don’t have parts and when they die, they die.

 

[onek00lj4y]

Well, for the moment I'm pretty much done with getting my WiiMs set up. My PC/speaker/Ultra and Mini/Headphone Amp is all going strong, USB attached to the Ultra, accessible with the Mini too, all excellent.

On the horizon, the possibility of Minis for elsewhere in the house, and maybe an Amp/Pro under the 2nd lounge TV (with possibly yet another Mini for surround duties, as we see how that plays out), but that's all gravy.

Whilst I'm completely happy, nay ecstatic, with what I have, I do have a slight concern for the future. I've had a Sonos for quite a few years, and I've seen issues come and go. There was a point where they were pretty much saying old models would be obsolete/not updated, and there've been all sorts of shenanigans lately with the app.

Just reading the threads at these forums, it's astonishing how many bizarre little features, quirks, updates, requests, etc. there are for WiiM. You read any update page, and it's often a list of features I'd never use, many I've not even heard of. The complexity is astonishing.

It would appear that Ye Olde Dayes ™ of a source with Play, Pause, Next/Ffwd, Prev/Rwnd, Stop, an On/Off button and volume control and...well, that's it - works from when you buy it for life with no updates, well those Dayes have gone.

But the more complex a set-up is, the more it needs to be updated/supported, for when new PCs, new versions of Windows, new iPhones/iPads, versions of iOS, new routers, arrive. And the more proactive WiiM (or any company) are at bringing in new/better features and products, the less likely it is that something like the WiiM App (one app to rule all your WiMs) is going to be possible. And as new products come online, old ones become obsolete and abandoned, with no new firmware updates, and the old firmware not working with whatever else is going on in the world.

So thank you WiiM, I love my set ups. They're by far and away the best I've ever had, most advanced, most versatile, most user friendly, and best value for money systems I've had in 40 years of Hi-Fi. But please don't let them become obsolete.

You worrying way to much,just enjoy

 

[90sNintendoKid]

If I have to get latest WiiM Ultra equivalent in two years time, I don’t mind. WiiM devices are relatively cheap and objectively measure well.

 

[goodmore]

Streaming services will come and go. What they stream I see remaining consistent. WiiM will need to add support for future Streaming companies.