Thinking about moving to passive speakers with WiiM Ultra — need help picking a direction

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huyvoxyz

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Hey everyone, Wiim Ultra user here. I'm currently running it with KEF LSX II as my main setup and love how it sounds - the convenience of an all-in-one active speaker is great, but I've been trying to get into the passive speaker world and I'm not sure where to start.

My main gripe with the LSX II is that it has no bass :eek:. I don't want a subwoofer, so I want a passive speaker that can match the LSX II's overall clarity and soundstage but just... goes lower and hits harder naturally. Now I'm staring at a few paths and genuinely not sure which makes the most sense:
  1. Wiim Ultra -> VibeLink -> passive speakers — keep my Ultra, add VibeLink as the amp.
  2. Wiim Amp Ultra -> passive speakers — simpler chain, but cannot upgrade the amp later.
  3. Wiim Ultra -> KEF Coda W — skip the whole passive rabbit hole, just get something that's still active but has more bass than the LSX II. This feels like the "safe" option but also the least exciting one: cannot upgrade amp, and the Coda W has less function than LSX II anyway.
Budget is flexible, room is 25-30 m2. Would love to hear from anyone who's made a similar transition or has opinions on these paths. What passive speaker would you even pair with a Wiim ecosystem at the LSX II quality level?
 
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BEE said:
With bookshelf speakers active or passive the solution is a subwoofer but you don’t want that.
Click to expand...
This is only partly correct. There are compact speakers that can generate quite a substantial bass fundament. No real low bass below 40 Hz of course. But for most people this not realy relevant.
A substantial improvement over the KEF LSX should be possible though.

I find it hard to give any loudspeaker recommendations as I don't spend my time in listening studios comparing different models. I can only report on what I've got. My Dali Epicon 2 (large bookshelf format) are outstanding with a very solid bass, but unfortunately discontinued. They are also in a different price range.

Also, I would recommend a step-up regarding the amplifier. Solid bass requires even more solid power and that's where the TPA implementations of a Vibelink and others reach their limits. Remember, power ratings of class-D amps not only apply to nominal power, but also to max. power. They don't have any headroom like good class A/B amps.
Therefore the OP should look into Hypex and Purifi amps by Audiophonics, Apollon, Buckeye and others.
 
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With room boundary reinforcement, my speakers get F3 39Hz, F6 36Hz, F10 31Hz, and the upper bass punch is immense thanks to the 8" drivers. For many listeners, this is sufficient bass. In fact, this is bass some people don't get even with tiny little 6" or 8" subwoofers.

MoFi SourcePoint 8. They're coaxial like your current KEFs, so you will not sacrifice one iota of imaging precision or stability. You just get a tremendous boost in bass and full-scale headroom.

I run an SVS SB-3000 subwoofer, but I low-pass it in at 30Hz. This gives me the slam I want down low as well as foundational bass for occasional synthetic or organ bass. At that low of a cut-in, it has completely zero localization, so it has absolutely no impact to imaging whatsoever, none.

-Ed
 
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I’ve only used amps and passive speakers on my main music listening systems, and since I added a sub, I won’t go without. But I have also used active speakers for monitors in my home studio (mainly for the digital piano), and that has also benefitted greatly with the addition of a small sub. For personal listening, I think you’d be wise to at least consider adding a sub to your setup. You’ve already got the perfect vehicle for it in the Ultra. Even a decent smaller 8” powered sub would make a noticeable difference, and in most cases be much more affordable than adding an amp and passive speakers.
 
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huyvoxyz said:
Hey everyone, Wiim Ultra user here. I'm currently running it with KEF LSX II as my main setup and love how it sounds - the convenience of an all-in-one active speaker is great, but I've been trying to get into the passive speaker world and I'm not sure where to start.

My main gripe with the LSX II is that it has no bass :eek:. I don't want a subwoofer, so I want a passive speaker that can match the LSX II's overall clarity and soundstage but just... goes lower and hits harder naturally. Now I'm staring at a few paths and genuinely not sure which makes the most sense:
  1. Wiim Ultra -> VibeLink -> passive speakers — keep my Ultra, add VibeLink as the amp.
  2. Wiim Amp Ultra -> passive speakers — simpler chain, but cannot upgrade the amp later.
  3. Wiim Ultra -> KEF Coda W — skip the whole passive rabbit hole, just get something that's still active but has more bass than the LSX II. This feels like the "safe" option but also the least exciting one: cannot upgrade amp, and the Coda W has less function than LSX II anyway.
Budget is flexible, room is 25-30 m2. Would love to hear from anyone who's made a similar transition or has opinions on these paths. What passive speaker would you even pair with a Wiim ecosystem at the LSX II quality level?
Click to expand...
If you don't want to integrate a sub, the very new Palmer Orbit 11 is worth a look.
It is powered, cardioid-bass, coaxial and an almost full-range speaker.
Initial measurements from two sources so far confirm company measurements. Main compromise appears to be in hiss level, which could be audible in some environments.

If you want something cheaper, the Kali IN-5 and IN-8 are great (powered) coaxial 3-way speakers, with solid bass response.

Issue with many powered speakers will be that they won't power on/off automatically together with your Ultra.

If you prefer passive speakers, I'd personally suggest to look at Ascilab F6B, KEF Q Concerto Meta and Wharfedale Linton. These differ on directivity width, which is a matter of personal preference. Wide directivity speakers like Linton will give a wider and more enveloping soundstage, but less focused imaging. Narrower directivity speakers like the Ascilab will have a narrower sounstage, but more precise imaging.

But most speakers would still benefit from a well-integrated sub... e.g. a sub can help with some room acoustics and placement issues (e.g. SBIR notches).

IMHO something like a WiiM Amp Ultra + KEF Q Concerto Meta + a SVS sub would be a simple, but a great sounding full-range system. I wouldn't worry about amp upgrades at all, unless the system can't play loud enough for you.

Have a look also at recommendations on EAC leaderboard.

Hope this helps and good luck!
 
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Palmer orbit cardioid design actually works >200hz therefore the most problematic frequency area in the room is not addressed. It will help with reflections of course, especially in a lively room from midrange and up.

However active speakers are not so durable/reliable designs as passives if you intend to keep your hifi for many years... Therefore I would invest my money in a good passive system.
 
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steadyshot said:
Palmer orbit cardioid design actually works >200hz therefore the most problematic frequency area in the room is not addressed. It will help with reflections of course, especially in a lively room from midrange and up.
Click to expand...
The intention of a cardioid design in loudspeakers is to decrease the severity of front-wall SBIR notch for close-to-wall speaker placement.

Palmer Orbit 11 bass drivers are crossed over at 250Hz, and this is approximately also the frequency where their cardioid behaviour is ending.
The bass drivers are side-mounted, which means the centre of the bass driver is ~15cm from the back of the speaker.

Taking all that into account, we can calculate that we benefit from the cardioid design as long as the speakers are placed less than 20cm from the wall. Such placement puts the center of bass driver <35cm from the wall behind, which in turn pushes the corresponding SBIR notch >250Hz and into the cardioid radiation of the speaker.

If the speaker's cardioid behaviour persisted to a lower frequency, it would only allow us to put the speaker further away from the wall and still avoid the SBIR notch.
Note that cardioid bass can't really solve room *modal* behaviour (i.e. standing waves), regardless of where the cardioid end frequency is. So this needs to be addressed by other means anyway.
 
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