Volume balance - Wiim ULTRA - How much is too much?

[Giro413]

Hi everyone,

Left/right volume balance on Wiim ULTRA. How much is too much? Any best practices when it comes to using L/R balance settings?

My speaker setup consists of two Dali Oberon 5 floor standers and an Argon S850 sub, which is placed in the back right side corner (behind a couch) opposite of the speakers. There is roughly 3-4 meters from the Dali speakers to my listening position - in the couch (which unfortunately cannot be seen on the picture - it is behind the table). The room is rectangular, where the side with the tv is approx. 4,5m, the other 3,8m. Ceilings are 3,15m. Slanted corners in three corners (all except back right). Wooden door in the back left corner.

As you can see from the position of the tv compared to the speakers, the left speaker is further away than the right one. Of course, depending on where in the couch I am sitting, length to one or the other speaker varies. I have found that moving the balance slider in the Wiim app 0.3 (30%) to the left creates the most equal output of left and right sound when I am sitting in the couch. But it does seem to me that that is a bit much, and it also is not optimal when i am moving around the room.

I know this has been touched upon earlier, but I cannot seem to find the relevant thread. What is the best way of treating balance in my room like mine?

I realize that my speakers are at an angle when in fact the manufacturer states that they should not be. However as you can see my walls kind of dictate that. I also realize that I could easily pull out the left speaker to be at a equivalent distance from me as the right - create an equal-sided triangle and so on. However, that is what I am looking to avoid.

Thanks in advance for any considerations and advice. Will be tweaking my setup tonight listening to Nick Cave's Wild God, so shoot!

 

[harkpabst]

This is a tough one. There's no hard and sound rule what amount of balance correction is too much, but the setup surely isn't optimal.

Also note that the balance slider can compensate for the difference in level, but as of now the Ultra has no means of compensating for runtime differences between the left and the right channel. At certain frequencies you will get irregularities due to cancellation and this cannot be overcome by per-channel EQ.

Just looking at your picture and not reading the entire text, my first thoughts were:
Move these speakers out into the room and toe them out a little (the difference to the walls doesn't have to be the same, this is something you can correct with per-channel EQ). Put the sub in the middle between the speakers (you might get away with your current setup choosing a really low crossover frequency). If possible, move each V3 Mono close to each speaker (not that essential if the heat dissipation is OK and you don't hear "beat tones" due to interferences between the monoblocks).

Unfortunately you've been pretty much aware of that and actively try to avoid it. I don't have any better recommendation, though.

Do you already know when the external renovation work on the building will be completed?

 

[Jamp7]

A little off topic but… What a cool setup and room. The white speakers look nice in there. What are the pipes or tubes along the floor behind the right speaker used for. Is that a trap door in the floor? It is a very nice space you have.

 

[saberger1]

A little off topic but… What a cool setup and room. The white speakers look nice in there. What are the pipes or tubes along the floor behind the right speaker used for. Is that a trap door in the floor? It is a very nice space you have.

I agree!

 

[spinnrade]

Is this balance slider somewhere in the app for the Pro Plus? If so, where can I find it, on my setup the sound is often tilted to the left. It would be great to not have to get up and adjust the balance on the amp when this happens.

Has anyone else experienced this. Left channel slightly louder?

Thanks.

 

[hgo58]

Is this balance slider somewhere in the app for the Pro Plus? If so, where can I find it, on my setup the sound is often tilted to the left. It would be great to not have to get up and adjust the balance on the amp when this happens.

Has anyone else experienced this. Left channel slightly louder?

Thanks.

Yes. At least on the analog output I sometimes have the feeling that left channel is a bit louder. I don't hear it but can see it on the digital VU meters I have on a tape recorder attached to the Pro Plus.

You can find the "Volume Balance" in the "Device" - "Audio Settings".

 

[574stereo]

The difference in level is not the issue here, it’s the timing difference which you’re hearing (and the balance control won’t correct for this).

Sound level drops 6 dB every doubling of distance, so the likely level difference here is 1 dB at the very maximum, just as a rough guesstimate.

 

[hgo58]

The difference in level is not the issue here, it’s the timing difference which you’re hearing (and the balance control won’t correct for this).

Sound level drops 6 dB every doubling of distance, so the likely level difference here is 1 dB at the very maximum, just as a rough guesstimate.

Not sure what you mean here. It's not about listening position, I can measure it (a bit inaccurate) on the VU meters.

 

[Valentino]

30% reduction is appx. 3 dB. Panning has been used in mixing since double pots were put on a board.
Using the balance slider to move the center of the stereo image is fine, but not the ultimate solution due to the timing differences.
Lovely room!

 

[574stereo]

Not sure what you mean here. It's not about listening position, I can measure it (a bit inaccurate) on the VU meters.

It'll be far too inaccurate on a VU meter, really in order to ascertain something like this you have to do a proper measurement.

Meters just tell you how much sound pressure level was arriving at a microphone at a certain time. Hearing perceives loudness differently at different frequencies.

Also, in order to have a correct stereo image, the sound from both speakers has to arrive at your ears at the same time. If one speaker arrives before the other (because it's closer to you, for example), then the stereo image won't work.

 

[slartibartfast]

It'll be far too inaccurate on a VU meter, really in order to ascertain something like this you have to do a proper measurement.

Meters just tell you how much sound pressure level was arriving at a microphone at a certain time. Hearing perceives loudness differently at different frequencies.

Also, in order to have a correct stereo image, the sound from both speakers has to arrive at your ears at the same time. If one speaker arrives before the other (because it's closer to you, for example), then the stereo image won't work.

Microphones? The VU meters are on a tape recorder connected to the Pro Plus.

 

[574stereo]

But won't that just show you the level of the signal being received by the tape recorder?

Sorry if I'm being dense, but I don't think that has any relationship to the effect of sitting closer to one speaker than another...

 

[hgo58]

But won't that just show you the level of the signal being received by the tape recorder?

Sorry if I'm being dense, but I don't think that has any relationship to the effect of sitting closer to one speaker than another...

Please. See latest question in post #5. The answer was for that. Not the original one.

 

[s3igell]

Yes. At least on the analog output I sometimes have the feeling that left channel is a bit louder. I don't hear it but can see it on the digital VU meters I have on a tape recorder attached to the Pro Plus.

There is no requirement that Recordings be exactly balanced. In fact, between the Artist and the Sound Engineer, placement of instruments and relative balance are often going to dictate a persistent imbalance.
Of course, there could also be an imbalance in your measurement circuitry / impedence issue in a connector, etc.

 

[hgo58]

There is no requirement that Recordings be exactly balanced. In fact, between the Artist and the Sound Engineer, placement of instruments and relative balance are often going to dictate a persistent imbalance.
Of course, there could also be an imbalance in your measurement circuitry / impedence issue in a connector, etc.

Sorry, I think you are missing what the question was.

"Has anyone else experienced this. Left channel slightly louder?"

I answer that

"At least on the analog output I sometimes have the feeling that left channel is a bit louder. I don't hear it but can see it on the digital VU meters"

So I may see the same as was asked about. Nothing else.

 

[spinnrade]

The difference in level is not the issue here, it’s the timing difference which you’re hearing (and the balance control won’t correct for this).

Sound level drops 6 dB every doubling of distance, so the likely level difference here is 1 dB at the very maximum, just as a rough guesstimate.

When you say "timing difference", what exactly are you referring to? In my case, I sit dead center between the speakers.

@hgo58 Thank you for pointing out where the balance slider is. I will try this tonight.

 

[spinnrade]

Yes. At least on the analog output I sometimes have the feeling that left channel is a bit louder. I don't hear it but can see it on the digital VU meters I have on a tape recorder attached to the Pro Plus.

You can find the "Volume Balance" in the "Device" - "Audio Settings".

Found it. Exactly what I needed. Thanks again!

 

[574stereo]

When you say "timing difference", what exactly are you referring to? In my case, I sit dead center between the speakers.

@hgo58 Thank you for pointing out where the balance slider is. I will try this tonight.

My mistake, I wasn't looking at usernames when I replied!