What products you'd like to see WiiM produce?

[rjw]

Here's another idea:

WiiM Amp Mini

A mini amp would ONLY have amplified speaker outputs, no wired inputs, no other outputs and potentially can only be added as a linked wiim in a group controlled by a pro or pro plus or wiim amp

This device would cut as many features as possible to get the cost low while allowing it to power speakers as part of a WiiM group.

Someone could then have a full WiiM Pro or WiiM amp with their inputs controlling the group and place wireless, cheaper WiiM amp mini's around powering passive speakers at low cost.

Effectively the equivalent of attaching a WiiM mini to a cheap power amp like a Fosi v3, but at a lower price point by cutting out everything not needed for that purpose

 

[ZeN]

Just build a Mini DSP Flex Eight with HDMI ARC and a wiim pro streamer inside, this would make 99% of all high end audio DAC/EQs/Streamers obsolete.
The key is to have a device that can do all that and has the ability "always on/standby" so you can turn it on whenever you want from your phone "sonos style" this is how the new generation wants to interact.

​

 

[hashkey]

Here's another idea:

WiiM Amp Mini

A mini amp would ONLY have amplified speaker outputs, no wired inputs, no other outputs and potentially can only be added as a linked wiim in a group controlled by a pro or pro plus or wiim amp

This device would cut as many features as possible to get the cost low while allowing it to power speakers as part of a WiiM group.

Someone could then have a full WiiM Pro or WiiM amp with their inputs controlling the group and place wireless, cheaper WiiM amp mini's around powering passive speakers at low cost.

Effectively the equivalent of attaching a WiiM mini to a cheap power amp like a Fosi v3, but at a lower price point by cutting out everything not needed for that purpose

There's an assumption that removing features makes things cheaper, and it stands to reason except… Fewer features renders it more of a niche product, and the producer has to charge more to make it worthwhile.
My dream Wiim Amp would have ethernet in, speakers and sub out and nothing else. But I'd be the only one buying it…

 

[harkpabst]

My dream Wiim Amp would have ethernet in, speakers and sub out and nothing else. But I'd be the only one buying it…

Correct!

 

[rjw]

There's an assumption that removing features makes things cheaper, and it stands to reason except… Fewer features renders it more of a niche product, and the producer has to charge more to make it worthwhile.
My dream Wiim Amp would have ethernet in, speakers and sub out and nothing else. But I'd be the only one buying it…

Well sure, but for the sake of argument a Wiim mini is $80-90, a Fosi v3 is about the same price, so put it together and you're paying $160 to $180. A WiiM Amp is $299.

The WiiM amp is giving you better connections, a beefier processor, probably a better DAC? But it also costs a lot more which makes it prohibitive to scatter a bunch of them around.

 

[Smartplug]

In order for business to release a new product, it is only normal that they don’t put everything imaginable. It will be gradual and add one or two features. Wiim amp made my Polk legend sound incredible. The sound of this system will satisfy even the most discriminating ear. Controlled bass much better than my mono block amp.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Just build a Mini DSP Flex Eight with HDMI ARC and a wiim pro streamer inside, this would make 99% of all high end audio DAC/EQs/Streamers obsolete.
The key is to have a device that can do all that and has the ability "always on/standby" so you can turn it on whenever you want from your phone "sonos style" this is how the new generation wants to interact.

​

I’m not sure the Ultra is going to be far off that.

At the moment the big question is how good WiiM’s room correction is going to be.

If it’s good, then a huge chunk of minidsp’s market disappears. Yes, you’ll still have more you can do on that, more flexible, etc., but I get the impression that at least half the people who’ve bought it have got it for single use 2.1/2.2 set ups, and just want the worst nasties taking out of the room. I get the impression they only bought one because the DAC and amp in AV receivers aren’t so good.

You’ve then got people with/in the market for an AV receiver, but who would prefer something 2.1/2.1.

If WiiM’s room correction is reasonable, added together, those two are a huge market.

My fear is this. They’re doing room correction on all existing models. Now that’s going to be less than ideal, because only the Amp has a sub out. If they use the same correction on all models, then the Amp and Ultra won’t get the best service possible. In other words, the room correction for the Amp and Ultra need to be that bit…better than on the Mini, Pro and Pro Plus.

What I can absolutely guarantee is that there’ll be comparisons aplenty between using the WiiM’s own room correction, and that you get from REW and minidsp. And no matter how good the former is, it will be attacked by minidsp owners with buyers remorse.

 

[rjw]

They have to do group level room correction. The whole point of wiim, to me, is that it can drive multiple devices wirelessly so I don't have to run cables everywhere.

But that means the sub and mains may be on different wiim. In fact the L and R may not be connected to the same wiim.

So the room correction really needs to be at the group level, otherwise it's a gimmick.

 

[ZeN]

I’m not sure the Ultra is going to be far off that.

At the moment the big question is how good WiiM’s room correction is going to be.

If it’s good, then a huge chunk of minidsp’s market disappears. Yes, you’ll still have more you can do on that, more flexible, etc., but I get the impression that at least half the people who’ve bought it have got it for single use 2.1/2.2 set ups, and just want the worst nasties taking out of the room. I get the impression they only bought one because the DAC and amp in AV receivers aren’t so good.

You’ve then got people with/in the market for an AV receiver, but who would prefer something 2.1/2.1.

If WiiM’s room correction is reasonable, added together, those two are a huge market.

My fear is this. They’re doing room correction on all existing models. Now that’s going to be less than ideal, because only the Amp has a sub out. If they use the same correction on all models, then the Amp and Ultra won’t get the best service possible. In other words, the room correction for the Amp and Ultra need to be that bit…better than on the Mini, Pro and Pro Plus.

What I can absolutely guarantee is that there’ll be comparisons aplenty between using the WiiM’s own room correction, and that you get from REW and minidsp. And no matter how good the former is, it will be attacked by minidsp owners with buyers remorse.

I was not referring to the ultra, that is going to be more a competitor for eversolo.
In my ideal scenario, I envision a unit with six RCA outputs, each equipped with five parametric EQ bands per channel and crossover functionality.
Such capabilities would enable the creation of a full active system.
When you've experienced this kind of setup, you begin to appreciate that many high-end features are often unnecessary. It's an ongoing debate, but most audio professionals recognize that achieving a precise sound curve requires either a perfect room or effective EQ adjustments."

 

[Brantome]

They have to do group level room correction. The whole point of wiim, to me, is that it can drive multiple devices wirelessly so I don't have to run cables everywhere.

But that means the sub and mains may be on different wiim. In fact the L and R may not be connected to the same wiim.

So the room correction really needs to be at the group level, otherwise it's a gimmick.

Not sure what you mean. How can group correction work if the WiiMs are in different rooms, with different acoustic properties? For me, room correction is just that - for a room, not multiple different rooms.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Not sure what you mean. How can group correction work if the WiiMs are in different rooms, with different acoustic properties? For me, room correction is just that - for a room, not multiple different rooms.

I think they mean if you have say a WiiM Pro Plus driving your mains, and a Mini driving your sub. In the same room.

 

[canard]

all this may just be illusory with our current wiims...
may be necessary, as some have pointed out, powerful dedicated dsp, classic now, of which our devices would be deprived...

for months facing this type of questioning, it is a shame that wiim does not invite competent "wiim" engineers to dialogue here but that commercial marketing managers...
see do not answer any of the "technical" questions , that they by their promise, they generated...
too bad...
and only fuels "la boite a phantasmes" ... (sorry for the French)
for a long time, the situation has been a bit ridiculous

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

I’ve put thus in its own thread elsewhere, but I suppose it really should go here. Sorry for the duplication.

I realise the Ultra might be ‘sort of’ one of these.

First, just look at what this product does, as it’s 90% of what I’m after (saves me explaining a lot):

Arylic BP50 Preamp with HDMI ARC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of Arylic BP50 preamp with internal DAC, phono stage, HDMI ARC and Bluetooth. It was kindly drop shipped to me by a member and costs US $99. Front panel doesn't hint at the immense amount of functionality BP50 provides. You get that from the back...

audiosciencereview.com

Okay. Now, add to this room EQ. Give it enough processing power to handle 10 bands of PEQ and add room correction. Lots of calls for balanced outs, so that too.

And finally, make sure that, unlike the item in the link, give it a great quality DAC, and for that matter a great ADC.

That’s an endgame product.

Looked at from a slightly different perspective, lots of people buying and using these on 2.1/2.2 set ups for the features, flexibility:

Marantz NR1510 AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of Marantz NR1510 5.2 4K slim Home Theater AV Receiver. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $799. I have been wanting to test a slim AVR for a long time as they much better fit under a TV in a living room than the monster that regular AVR...

audiosciencereview.com

Now, make that 2.1/2.2 instead of 5.1/5.2, and make it a stereo pre amp instead of a 5 channel surround sound amp.

And the Arylic does everything it does for just £100, which is just silly. So WiiM have a lot of headroom to up the spec and still keep it at a reasonable price. The Marantz is c.£500, but that includes the amplification.

Over to WiiM to show them how to do it properly.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

all this may just be illusory with our current wiims...
may be necessary, as some have pointed out, powerful dedicated dsp, classic now, of which our devices would be deprived...

I think there’s a chance you’re right, but we’ll have to see.

 

[Wiimer]

I think they mean if you have say a WiiM Pro Plus driving your mains, and a Mini driving your sub. In the same room.

In that case, I don't think the group room correction is necessary. All you have to do is copy the PEQ value of the Pro to the value of the low-frequency band to the Mini.

I'm not arguing against you, I'm replying to @rjw.

 

[Smartplug]

How do you use mini just to use to drive sub?

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

How do you use mini just to use to drive sub?

I presume it’s just 3.5mm out to stereo RCA cable, the latter plugged into the stereo input of the sub, LF crossover on the sub set to cut out the higher frequencies.

 

[rjw]

Not sure what you mean. How can group correction work if the WiiMs are in different rooms, with different acoustic properties? For me, room correction is just that - for a room, not multiple different rooms.

You can use multiple wiim in the same room.

ETA - it's an expected use case. When you group this is why you can mark a wiim as left or right speaker. You could also have a third in the room driving a subwoofer, and you might have a fourth wiim driving a second subwoofer. The whole idea is not to need to run speaker cables around.

 

[rjw]

I presume it’s just 3.5mm out to stereo RCA cable, the latter plugged into the stereo input of the sub, LF crossover on the sub set to cut out the higher frequencies.

Yes that's my plan.

And here's a product suggestion, re: thread topic

WiiM Sub Mini - a WiiM mini with features customized for driving a subwoofer. Specifically it would have an LFE out, as well as line out, and it would have both a rumble filter (low end high pass filter) and a low pass filter. With the launch of this product all other WiiM would include a crossover setting (high pass filter) to offload bass to the synched wiim sub.

I will be creating a poor man's version of this by EQ the first two bands of LR on the WiiM pro to -12

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

My immediate thinking is that I’d be amazed if they synched up accurately enough for this to work, but who knows.

Worth a try, let us know how you get on.