wiim pro with vintage monster receiver

I would set the WiiM Pro Plus to 2V output
Thank you. I have read that 2v is probably okay as that is what CD players output. But then I have also read completely different advice. So it's very confusing for me. :)

I would rather set the WiiM's output voltage to 200 mVrms
Okay, thank you for this. I guess I will have to experiment. I assumed there was some sort of setting formula commensurate with the amp's input sensitivity.

only if the output power is too limited (WiiM and BT20A at 100%) I would consider to increase the output voltage to 500 mVrms.
I will keep this in mind. Thank you again.
 
Here is the approach I took with my vintage receiver (Pioneer SX-1250). I separated the power amplifier from the pre-amplifier (jumper removal) and connected my WiiM Ultra line out (set to variable output with volume at 0) to the power amp in. Then I connected from the last monitor point in the receiver (Adapter Out on the SX-1250) to the WiiM line input. This effectively eliminates the active part of the Pioneer pre-amp along with all of the controls such as volume, balance, muting and filters while still allowing for access to the tuner, turntables, CD player and tape decks. Source selection on the receiver functions normally. The only thing I'm losing with this configuration is noise 😁.

I usually don't use tone controls or loudness but that functionality is available in the Home app if desired. An additional bonus of the variable output on WiiM is the availability of bass management if you have an Ultra and are using a subwoofer (which I am). Plus, there is also the added convenience of being able to control the volume using the remote.

I just want to reiterate that you should change the WiiM to variable output with the volume set to 0 before connecting to the receiver's power amp to prevent any unfortunate accidents.
wow, next project! No ultra and and sub (yet) but great idea!
 
Can you explain more about this variable output setting please? What is the benefit, and does the WiiM Pro Plus also have this?
The setting is under the "Audio Settings" > "Fixed Volume Output". When this setting is turned off, the volume can be varied using the Home app or the Bluetooth remote. When "Fixed Audio Output" is turned on, the volume will be fixed at 100. When using the WiiM as a pre-amp feeding a power amp, you want variable output to control the volume. All of the WiiM streamers share this feature including the Pro Plus.

Screenshot_2024-11-25-23-11-50-354.jpg
 
The setting is under the "Audio Settings" > "Fixed Volume Output". When this setting is turned off, the volume can be varied using the Home app or the Bluetooth remote. When "Fixed Audio Output" is turned on, the volume will be fixed at 100. When using the WiiM as a pre-amp feeding a power amp, you want variable output to control the volume. All of the WiiM streamers share this feature including the Pro Plus.

View attachment 14370
Ah, I see. I thought there was a separate variable output setting. I hadn't realised you were referring to the volume dettings. Many thanks for the clarification.
 
Honestly, I don't see the advantage of this approach.
What I have read so far on different sites is that it is generally advised to limit the volume level at the last possible device of the device chain before the speakers. Given the BT20A is an integrated amp it would then make sense to limit maximum volume using the volume wheel of the Amp and not in the Preamp. However, you are right that this approach creates the danger of children playing with the volume knob which could damage the speakers.
 
Given the BT20A is an integrated amp it would then make sense to limit maximum volume using the volume wheel of the Amp and not in the Preamp. However, you are right that this approach creates the danger of children playing with the volume knob which could damage the speakers.
Yes, I have seen this suggested as well. Children accessing the BT20A is extremely unlikely in our situation, but the possibility is worth being mindful off. So in this scenario you would use the 2v output?
 
Yes, I have seen this suggested as well. Children accessing the BT20A is extremely unlikely in our situation, but the possibility is worth being mindful off. So in this scenario you would use the 2v output?
If it is extremely unlikely, then I would use 2V output of the WiiM and leave the volume wheel of the BT20A at the position of your maximum tolerable level. And then better put the BT20A in the back of the shelf or inside a cupboard, as you never have to access it.

You could also buy this:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/diy-...v-230v-slave-power-supply-device-p-10661.html

Put this on the socket of the power supply and then you are able to use the trigger of the Wiim Pro Plus to switch the amp on and off.
 
Yes, I have seen this suggested as well. Children accessing the BT20A is extremely unlikely in our situation, but the possibility is worth being mindful off. So in this scenario you would use the 2v output?
What is your current setup?
(Has Pro Plus arrived yet?).

The suggestions I gave you earlier in a PM are exactly the same as @harkpabst. If you are going to set it up, please try 200mV first.

Since the BT20A only has RCA and Bluetooth inputs, I don't think you need Bluetooth on the BT20A if you use the WiiM's Bluetooth.

Therefore, start with the line output level of the WiiM at 200mV and fix the volume of the BT20A at 100%. Then increase the WiiM volume from 0 to 100%, and if it is still not loud enough, try 500mV; if 500mV is not enough, you can increase it to 800mV, 1V, and 2V, in that order.

(However if you use Bluetooth on the BT20A, you may need to turn down the volume on the BT20A to eliminate the volume difference between RCA-in and Bluetooth-in.)

Finally, adjust the volume of the WiiM so that when it is near 100%, it is at the maximum volume you normally hear.

The WiiM then needs to adjust the volume for each input; the WiiM will remember the volume setting for each input. After turning the volume down enough, switch the input to play the source and adjust the volume to the appropriate level. Alternatively, you can use the pre-gain function to adjust the volume difference for each input.
😄
 
Yes, I have seen this suggested as well. Children accessing the BT20A is extremely unlikely in our situation, but the possibility is worth being mindful off. So in this scenario you would use the 2v output?
I know you are getting conflicting info, but I reckon the bt20a will perform at its best if its volume is at full because that's when it degrades the signal the least (remember my contact on the far left, "on top of the music" analogy in a PM?).
How audible any difference for you in where the volume control occurs is debatable, and for you to determine.
I'd still start with the wiim low and the bt high so that the bt doesn't get an overwhelmingly large voltage input should it get turned up.

The general advice to leave volume attenuation to the end is, I believe, so that everything before it passes the signal on with as little degradion as possible.
Yet I'd be confident that the digital volume control done by the wiim would be less degrading to the signal than the analog volume control done by the bt20a.

As explained before, you need to find your sweet spot between not having distorted music if you turn it up loud and being able to have the fine volume control you want.
 
The suggestions I gave you earlier in a PM are exactly the same
Yes, and thank you so much. I'm afraid I get myself very confused with all if this, so I'm hoping it will end up being a simple process when the WiiM Pro Plus arrives and I attempt to set it up. I'm hoping it will come Thursday or Friday. I wasn't aware that I need to change all the settings for each input source. For my situation, this will be the CD player connected to the WiiM's Optical In, Chromecast and Airplay Audio, and Bluetooth Audio. I will connect to the amp via RCA cables.

The idea is that the WiiM will replace the BT20A's Bluetooth, so it should no longer be needed.
 
I know you are getting conflicting info
Yes, it's somewhat confusing, but I am extremely grateful for any additional info to help me get my head around this seemingly complex setup process. Interestingly, there doesn't seem to a standard or default line level output setting, and if I'm understanding correctly, it's more of a trial and error situation. I have lots to digest, but I'm sure it will all become clear once I have the WiiM and the App here.
 
Replying to myself!
Seems @Wiimer and @harkpabst are aligned, and I think I am too!
Sorry for confusing you. It is no problem to just follow the advice by @Wiimer and @harkpabst. The music will probably sound the same. But you will have to take care that none of your visitors accidentally connects to the bluetooth input of the BT20A to play his music. That will lead to a loud surprise.
 
Yes, and thank you so much. I'm afraid I get myself very confused with all if this, so I'm hoping it will end up being a simple process when the WiiM Pro Plus arrives and I attempt to set it up. I'm hoping it will come Thursday or Friday. I wasn't aware that I need to change all the settings for each input source. For my situation, this will be the CD player connected to the WiiM's Optical In, Chromecast and Airplay Audio, and Bluetooth Audio. I will connect to the amp via RCA cables.

The idea is that the WiiM will replace the BT20A's Bluetooth, so it should no longer be needed.
Yes, if you no longer need Bluetooth on the BT20A, you may want to remove pairing with all devices connected to the BT20A and remove the BT20A antenna.

Also, as I have said many times, when setting up the Pro plus, be sure to first set the volume to 0 on the WiiM side before playing the source. 😄
 
Over my head I'm afraid. I had no idea setting up a WiiM was so complicated. :(
In general, the volume differences of the different inputs are not that huge. If you have problems with the difference you can adjust it. but you do not have to.
 
Besides, you can always get a lot of support here.
And I cannot tell you how grateful I am for that. Thank you.

I think perhaps I should stop reading posts and articles and just wait until I have the unit here. I'm sure if I get stuck I'll sheepishly head to the forum seeking assistance. I thought I had it all sorted, but then I confused myself again. :)

Thanks everyone for your patience.
 
Lots of good thoughts. Let me try to sum it up one more time.

First of, the gain structure becomes more and more important, the more stages of gain you have in your "system" (where "system" is not restricted to home Hi-Fi system). With a single streamer feeding a single amp it's simply less of an issue than, say, with a microphone, microphone pre-amp, multiple effects processors, a mixing console, a power amplifier and so on.

I'd say, the basic concepts behind a good gain structure are:
  1. Never let any device in the chain go into clipping.
  2. Don't amplify a signal just to have it attenuated in the next stage for no reason.
  3. Let your volume control work close to the range where it performs best.
The first point should be obvious. Clipping causes distortion. Once it's there, you cannot get rid of it further down the chain.

If you write down the second point the other way around, it remains true: Don't attenuate a signal so much that it needs additional amplification in the next stage. This is probably where this idea ...
What I have read so far on different sites is that it is generally advised to limit the volume level at the last possible device of the device chain before the speakers.
... stems from. It's not entirely wrong, but maybe still a bit of a misconception. You cannot feed a voltage higher than the input sensitivity into any device without violating rule 1. So, this ...
I would set the WiiM Pro Plus to 2V output, set the volume wheel of the BT20A amp to your maximum tolerable loudness level and then use digital volume control of the Wiim.
... is basically just a slightly complicated way to ensure that the amp's input stage is not overloaded . We can probably agree on something like: Keep the signal level high, but not higher than natively supported by the next stage.

Finally, we do need volume control, of course. Some disagree, but I stick to my statement that digital volume control (performed with 32 bit precision for 24 bit digital signals) is vastly superior to most analogue potentiometers. To be on the safe side, both types should not be operated close to their minimum values. In particular, cheap analogue pots have the least negative influence in their max position.

But you will have to take care that none of your visitors accidentally connects to the bluetooth input of the BT20A to play his music. That will lead to a loud surprise.
Good hint. Also depends on the volume setting on the phone, of course.

I had no idea setting up a WiiM was so complicated. :(
Actually, it isn't. Sticking with the defaults is OK.

WiiM devices just give you a lot more control and potential for optimising than most other stuff sold at this price point. :)
 
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