"Born To Run" pre-emphasis or no pre-emphasis?

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slartibartfast

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After playing the 30th Anniversary remaster the other day and noticing the dynamic range varied from DR8 to DR10 I disappeared down a rabbit hole on the Steve Hoffman forum discussing the best CD versions. It turns out there are three different masterings of the original CDs with mastering 3 widely regarded as the worst due to it's thin sound. Mastering 1 uses pre-emphasis and has a flag set to tell a CD player to apply de-emphasis, while mastering 2 and 3 do not have the pre-emphasis flag.
After 28 pages of posts slagging off mastering 3 and praising 1 and 2, someone suggested that mastering 3 actually should have the pre-emphasis flag and that was why it sounded so thin. The most common version is mastering 3 and that is the version of the original CD in my collection. I ripped it to FLAC and manually applied de-emphasis using Sox and it sounds good so maybe there is some truth in the pre-emphasis theory. The dynamic range of the de-emphasised original CD is DR11 to DR13.
If anyone has a Born To Run CD that sounds unusually thin give it a try.
 
I’ve gone down this rabbit hole too… There are lists out there where folks have documented specific major CD releases with pre-emphasis. There are many classical music CDs with it too that are not documented.. And as you have discovered, not all are marked correctly as pre-emphasis in the Redbook TOC. At the end of the day, if it sounds “not quite right’, try Sox, then use your ears. If you apply de-emphasis filters on tracks that don’t need it, they will now sound “not quite right” and you have your answer. This is easy to discern with albums/tracks you know well, and on a system you know well.

Another trick is if the same tracks are on Tidal/Qobuz/Amazon, you can do an AB listen test to compare. Although, sometimes I wonder if streaming services ever get this wrong, and their .flac file doesn’t have the correct de-emphasis. I’ve yet to encounter that personally.

If you are the type of person that hangs out on WiiM forums, you’re definitely the type that knows it sounds wrong and should trust yourself.
 
SoFluffy said:
I’ve gone down this rabbit hole too… There are lists out there where folks have documented specific major CD releases with pre-emphasis. There are many classical music CDs with it too that are not documented.. And as you have discovered, not all are marked correctly as pre-emphasis in the Redbook TOC. At the end of the day, if it sounds “not quite right’, try Sox, then use your ears. If you apply de-emphasis filters on tracks that don’t need it, they will now sound “not quite right” and you have your answer. This is easy to discern with albums/tracks you know well, and on a system you know well.

Another trick is if the same tracks are on Tidal/Qobuz/Amazon, you can do an AB listen test to compare. Although, sometimes I wonder if streaming services ever get this wrong, and their .flac file doesn’t have the correct de-emphasis. I’ve yet to encounter that personally.

If you are the type of person that hangs out on WiiM forums, you’re definitely the type that knows it sounds wrong and should trust yourself.
Click to expand...
Glad to hear I am not going mad then 😃. I have always thought that pre-emphasis was only ever used on some Japanese releases and I didn't think any of my CDs used it. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the wrong master was used by mistake. The most obvious difference is the sound of his voice, it sounds like a natural voice once de-emphasis is applied. Steve Hoffman replied on the forum that this pre-emphasis theory was totally irrelevant to what he was talking about when comparing different masters but he clearly missed the point completely as it fully explained his gripes with that CD mastering. Earlier in the thread comments had been made suggesting it sound like pre-emphasis was applied even though it wasn't but at that stage nobody jumped to the obvious conclusion. After all, if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck it probably is a duck 🤣
 
SoFluffy said:
I’ve gone down this rabbit hole too… There are lists out there where folks have documented specific major CD releases with pre-emphasis. There are many classical music CDs with it too that are not documented.. And as you have discovered, not all are marked correctly as pre-emphasis in the Redbook TOC. At the end of the day, if it sounds “not quite right’, try Sox, then use your ears. If you apply de-emphasis filters on tracks that don’t need it, they will now sound “not quite right” and you have your answer. This is easy to discern with albums/tracks you know well, and on a system you know well.

Another trick is if the same tracks are on Tidal/Qobuz/Amazon, you can do an AB listen test to compare. Although, sometimes I wonder if streaming services ever get this wrong, and their .flac file doesn’t have the correct de-emphasis. I’ve yet to encounter that personally.

If you are the type of person that hangs out on WiiM forums, you’re definitely the type that knows it sounds wrong and should trust yourself.
Click to expand...
I found another CD with pre-emphasis in my collection, "Hats-The Blue Nile". I always thought it sounded bright. I found it in a bargain bin back in the day with no CD insert. I saw it on a list of CDs with pre-emphasis so checked mine and sure enough it is LKHCD2 which is the one on the list.
 
BK308 said:
Oh no not another rabbit hole lol I’ve never heard of pre-emphasis.
Click to expand...
I had heard of it but ignored it since I didn't think I had any CDs with it. Now it turns out I have had to de-emphasise three CDs so far. Then you start to wonder about other bright sounding CDs 😃
 
jfbuk said:
where do you find it in dBpoweramp ?

Thanks
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Haven’t checked (and it has been a while since I used CD ripper) but I expect it to be in the CD configuration section. Just read about it here

Apply De-emphasis to CD tracks marked with Pre-Emphasis - dBpoweramp Forum

Bonjour, Apply De-emphasis to CD tracks marked with Pre-Emphasis Could you explain this new option which has appeared with the last R.17 Thanks for your usual help
forum.dbpoweramp.com

Edit: see here https://www.dbpoweramp.com/help/dmc/CDadvanced.htm
 
One of my old cd players has an "Emphasis" lamp but no button for it, this might explain what it was? I've always wondered, and I'd never of this until now.
 
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