Files on USB drive

[BowsAndArrows]

I really question whether latency can be a problem reading audio files. That’s what buffering is for. I’ve never seen a problem with video, and the data rate is much higher.

Second, you can eliminate the randomness by copying to a new or formatted drive, eliminating fragmentation.

But, for a few dollars more, SSDs. No argument, except money. Does not eliminate the need for backups.

High quality drives fail. Google has tested everything, and there are no good predictors of longevity.

Backups.

agreed. this is the only way you can guard against failures. proper backup plan with multiple layers of redundancy

Backblaze publishes a failure rate on their blog every year - been following it for ages! https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2023/ and it basically states that unless you're going for the bleeding edge drives with funky tech in them (like the very high capacity seagates last year) then you're basically good. mind you they are using them in really stressful server environments as well so doesn't necessarily translate to consumer drives in home settings. but still

it's not really about the audio files themselves. but about the IOPS required to perform library functions (in which case fragmentation has little effect) - like R/W metadata and stuff. it's why roon specifically recommends against it. and i believe LMS also discourage users from installing on HDD NAS for the same reasons - unless you are mainly a "web streaming" user with a small or non-existent local library of music. the library itself can be on HDD NAS in both cases. it's just that for the roon server specifically - since they build your data locally - they strongly recommend against it.

i've tested this in my own setup over the years - roon is very unresponsive when run on HDD. and i still do run LMS on my HDD nas - but i only use it for radio and streaming.

 

[Jls]

Just one last observation and I’m done. Given an extra hundred bucks, I would build a library and copy it to a read only working drive. By read only, I just mean I wouldn’t do metadata updates on the server drive.

My personal experience is that mechanical drives tend to fail gracefully, gradually filling up spare sectors.

I’ve had two SSDs fail, and they were catastrophic.

Everyone has different ideas about their end goal. I’m done with my local library. I ripped my CDs, fixed the tags, and I’m done. I have three copies.

 

[harkpabst]

Unasked for advice: After 40 years of supporting business networks, I can say, nothing is 100 percent reliable.

Backups. USB drives are cheap. Time spent building a library is not.

Of course, nothing in this world is 100% reliable. I was referring to the operation of the drive with the WiiM Amp and the WiiM Home App.

@all: Please don't mix up the topics of "durable" drives and backups. Nobody ever suggested to manage your music collection solely on a USB thumb drive and then plug it into your WiiM.

Up to at least 500 GB USB thumb drives are simply a cost efficient and easy to use option that fits the no-clutter approach of an all-in-one device like the Amp just perfectly. No mechanical noise, no external power supply, no cables. Truly plug and play (except for building the index ). Why should I bother if HDDs or SSDs are more likely to die and in what fashion if it's just about playing some music I have already stored elsewhere?

This "elsewhere" is probably in need of a backup strategy, but not that stick in the back of my WiiM.

 

[Jls]

Of course, nothing in this world is 100% reliable. I was referring to the operation of the drive with the WiiM Amp and the WiiM Home App.

@all: Please don't mix up the topics of "durable" drives and backups. Nobody ever suggested to manage your music collection solely on a USB thumb drive and then plug it into your WiiM.

Up to at least 500 GB USB thumb drives are simply a cost efficient and easy to use option that fits the no-clutter approach of an all-in-one device like the Amp just perfectly. No mechanical noise, no external power supply, no cables. Truly plug and play (except for building the index ). Why should I bother if HDDs or SSDs are more likely to die and in what fashion if it's just about playing some music I have already stored elsewhere?

This "elsewhere" is probably in need of a backup strategy, but not that stick in the back of my WiiM.

I would not hesitate to use a 500 gb thumb drive in the Wiim Amp, but 2 Tb thumb drives are a bit pricey. An m.2 ssd in an enclosure would be my alternative.

I keep saying I’m through, but just one more thing: mechanical drives do not degrade as quickly with many erasures and rewrites. In practice, is probably not noticeable. But thumb drives get real slow if you try to update large amounts of data.

 

[harkpabst]

I would not hesitate to use a 500 gb thumb drive in the Wiim Amp, but 2 Tb thumb drives are a bit pricey.

I think we're in agreement, then.

@Steve Woodhouse had originally asked about a 500 GB pendrive and then extended his search to external 500 GB drives with power supply.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Any idea if a powered external drive will run faster/slower than a pen drive?

I’m asking as I have 30,000 tracks to scan.

 

[Brantome]

As alluded to earlier in the thread, it depends on the pen drive and by extension the powered external drive. As indexing is likely to be a one-off or infrequent process, I wouldn’t overly concern myself, other than buying the fastest pen drive or external drive I could afford

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Any idea if a powered external drive will run faster/slower than a pen drive?

I’m asking as I have 30,000 tracks to scan.

none of the options i've mentioned here need separate external power. that's another benefit of solid state (either thumb drive or 2.5"/m.2 SSD). they generally consume much less power than the magnetic spinning types. most can be powered even by your phone/tablet USB port...

imo since the cost differential isn't that much between all three options - edit actually the thumb drives are a good bit cheaper to be fair - about half price. still tho - overall it's not much in terms of system cost. i would pick an m.2 SSD (probably crucial P3 or kingston NV2) and a separate enclosure. but a suitable alternative is the already packaged variants of these from the major brands like integral. not sure if i would trust a no-name brand external SSD without knowing what's inside it.

 

[Brantome]

none of the options i've mentioned here need separate external power. that's another benefit of solid state (either thumb drive or 2.5"/m.2 SSD). they generally consume much less power than the magnetic spinning types. most can be powered even by your phone/tablet USB port...

imo since the cost differential isn't that much between all three options. i would pick an m.2 SSD and a separate enclosure. but a suitable alternative is the already packaged variants of these from the major brands. not sure if i would trust a no-name brand external SSD without knowing what's inside it.

I believe the use of a pen drive or external drive discussed here has been in the context of the USB port on the Ultra (and by extension the Amp) where the power required to support the drive is very relevant. For example I had to supply external power for my 1TB SSD drive in order to use it with my Amp.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

I believe the use of a pen drive or external drive discussed here has been in the context of the USB port on the Ultra (and by extension the Amp) where the power required to support the drive is very relevant. For example I had to supply external power for my 1TB SSD drive in order to use it with my Amp.

absolutely relevant and i understand the context, but thanks for clarifying. i'm assuming the USB port will be a low powered one similar to a mobile device. i was just using the example to illustrate my point that no external power is required in this use case for the options i listed...

 

[Brantome]

absolutely relevant and i understand the context, but thanks for clarifying. i'm assuming the USB port will be a low powered one similar to a mobile device. i was just using the example to illustrate my point that no external power is required in this use case for the options i listed...

Yeah, see comment #23 etc…

 

[Terestron]

I just got the Ultra. I have a USB 1TB Hard drive with 350GB of mp3 music (70,000 songs).

I connected drive to Ultra and scanned.

Albums show up under "Folders" and when I select a Album (ex. 10,000 Maniacs - Blind Man's Zoo)

When I select folder (album), the songs show up as UNKNOWN, line below also shows UNKNOWN-UNKNOWN - UNKNOWN.

When I do select a song it will display the song name when playing though (ex. Lilydale - 10,000 Maniacs, album name)

My question is what is the proper format? I installed Mp3tag to convert but want to know how to do it properly for the Ultra to pickup all the info.

The current format on my HD is - C:/Music/10,000 Maniacs - album name/01-song name.mp3

If anyone could help me sort this out it would be great.

Additionally, all the album art is there but very fuzzy (resolution is bad), not sure how to correct that.
Also albums only show up under folders, nothing under artist, albums, or genre.

 

[simbun]

My question is what is the proper format? I installed Mp3tag to convert but want to know how to do it properly for the Ultra to pickup all the info.

The current format on my HD is - C:/Music/10,000 Maniacs - album name/01-song name.mp3

It's almost certainly a problem with the indexing and not your files as we've seen similar issues reported for FLAC files too.

The standard approach is:
AlbumArtist/Album/CD0X/01 - title.ext
AlbumArtist/Album/CD0X/folder.jpg

Being MP3 I guess you could make sure they don't contain ID3v1 tags (v2.3 or v2.4 should be fine), but I wouldn't spend too much time on this.

EDIT:
I know MiniDLNA (the server that WiiM uses) generates low quality thumbnails, but I thought they'd addressed that for USB indexing.
Have you submitted a ticket through the app (Settings > Send us feedback)?

 

[Terestron]

It's almost certainly a problem with the indexing and not your files as we've seen similar issues reported for FLAC files too.

The standard approach is:
AlbumArtist/Album/CD0X/01 - title.ext
AlbumArtist/Album/CD0X/folder.jpg

Being MP3 I guess you could make sure they don't contain ID3v1 tags (v2.3 or v2.4 should be fine), but I wouldn't spend too much time on this.

EDIT:
I know MiniDLNA (the server that WiiM uses) generates low quality thumbnails, but I thought they'd addressed that for USB indexing.
Have you submitted a ticket through the app (Settings > Send us feedback)?

According to Mp3tag they are "ID3v2.3 (ID3v1 ID3v2.3)"

No I have not submitted a request, was hoping someone would say..oooh, just go into Mp3tag and do this....

 

[simbun]

According to Mp3tag they are "ID3v2.3 (ID3v1 ID3v2.3)"

No I have not submitted a request, was hoping someone would say..oooh, just go into Mp3tag and do this....

You can remove the ID3v1 tags by following this process https://community.mp3tag.de/t/removing-id3v1-tags/4043/11

Make sure you have a backup and only try one album to start with. I'd change the album and folder name so that the indexing will definitely pick it up.