Finally some real competition for the WiiM lineup?? 👀

[BowsAndArrows]

FIIO just released their new SR11 "streaming music reciever" shipping now. Approx EUR115 currently.



Seems like it only does Airplay and Roon at the moment (+ i think that's unlikely to change). so it's not quite on the level of the WiiM ecosystem that includes the app etc. But it's an interesting option at a really good price point with many "extraneous" features omitted. I really like that it has USB out and that either the USB-A or -C ports can be used (one at a time) for outputting to DAC/active speakers. also, the design is pretty nifty as well, ngl

where's the WiiM micro that could blow this crap outta the water?! or maybe WiiM mini v2?? if WiiM release a pure digital transport/streamer (possibly with some digital inputs that make it a hub) i know i'm 100% gonna buy.

 

[audiobliss]

We just need a Wiim stream, digital out only, best quality parts, good power supply, and 12v trigger, same app with upgraded remote with more presets.
No phono, no dac, no hdmi arc,, no screen. I would gladly pay the asking price.

 

[castalla]

No details of what music sources are available.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

No details of what music sources are available.

only airplay and roon for now... no spotify/tidal connect, no chromecast, and supposedly no UPnP either... falls short on that front for sure.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

We just need a Wiim stream, digital out only, best quality parts, good power supply, and 12v trigger, same app with upgraded remote with more presets.
No phono, no dac, no hdmi arc,, no screen. I would gladly pay the asking price.

EXACTLY! this is what i've been asking for. or maybe WiiM could come out with a modular streaming system that people can configure themselves? kind of like the chord electronics devices. basically add whatever functionality you want. i would like to live in a future with modular budget HiFi gear that kicks ass!

 

[namobe13]

Hello. Is it an Airplay transmitter to be able to connect it to sonos speakers? I don't understand many. Excuse my ignorance.

 

[castalla]

Also, FiiO produce nice stuff, but firmware updates are typically few & far between. Don't expect the same type of support which Wiim provides.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Hello. Is it an Airplay transmitter to be able to connect it to sonos speakers? I don't understand many. Excuse my ignorance.

No it's only an airplay receiver. And Roon endpoint.

No idea about firmware updates etc. But at that price I could see it appealing to a lot of people

 

[castalla]

No it's only an airplay receiver. And Roon endpoint.

No idea about firmware updates etc. But at that price I could see it appealing to a lot of people

Look at the description in the first post - it states 'Firmware upgrades for more functionality'
I've got 2 FiiO devices - each has only ever received 1 upgrade - then no more, ever! I'm just pointing this out for prospective purchasers

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Look at the description in the first post - it states 'Firmware upgrades for more functionality'
I've got 2 FiiO devices - each has only ever received 1 upgrade - then no more, ever! I'm just pointing this out for prospective purchasers

Yes no that is an important aspect of the overall experience. And I agree - with a couple missteps here and there - WiiM team has done an excellent job overall in this area...
At least some competitors are trying to get a foothold in the market and I suppose that's a good thing for us consumers! Would love to see more Chi-Fi brands trying to directly compete here...

 

[Achim1811]

My only FiiO relevant for updates is a DAP. It received at least two updates within a few months. It could eventually be a good sign if updates are not so often necessary

 

[castalla]

My only FiiO relevant for updates is a DAP. It received at least two updates within a few months. It could eventually be a good sign if updates are not so often necessary

I think it's more based on shipping as many of these out the door as 'New!' - throw in a couple of early updates..... Then, move on to shipping the next all-new model/device... Repeated ad infinitum.

 

[Achim1811]

Think most of the updates on my DAP have to do with Android or the streaming services. All works fine, so no problems yet.
And being one who thought often about that SlimWiiM with only the WHA and digital outs I will for sure have a close look on the upcoming FiiO. Especially because Roon does all I want for my personal usage. But, I will not count the chickens before they are hatched

 

[hoohoohoo]

only airplay and roon for now... no spotify/tidal connect, no chromecast, and supposedly no UPnP either... falls short on that front for sure.

Cheaper hardware will continue to roll out.

Eventually, some major streamer will enter the market and subsidize the hardware. In the TV streaming market (much much larger), Roku started the external hardware streamer category which followed with offers from Amazon and Apple. Further, Google licensed their AndroidTV/GoogleTV to device manufacturers and a few deep pocketed TV manufacturers (Samsung, LG, Sony) did their own for a while before succumbing to the costs of building a consumer-grade software platform. Today, everyone has a hardware offer (either external player or player embedded in TV) and they all point you to a streaming service where the real value (sticky subscription revenue) exists. The external hardware vendors (Roku, Amazon, Apple) all retain a billing platform that gets a slice of the pie for each of the streaming services. So, the hardware is sold at cost and the real money is made on the streaming services -- get a sliver and it's gold.

Harmon Kardon has made an interesting play by buying Roon Labs. They then cheapened their hardware and are now offering a cheap endpoint which requires a Roon subscription. They are now experimenting in the marketplace (see the 60-day trial on this forum) to see if they can get other manufacturers to grow their subscription service. So, WiiM needs to figure out whether they want to build a billing platform for the longer term streaming play or be a speedbump as the hardware costs go down and down. If they can get a slice of the streaming revenue along with providing superior hardware, they'll be a continual presence. Whoever owns the billing platform will hold the financial leverage.

 

[castalla]

Cheaper hardware will continue to roll out.

Eventually, some major streamer will enter the market and subsidize the hardware. In the TV streaming market (much much larger), Roku started the external hardware streamer category which followed with offers from Amazon and Apple. Further, Google licensed their AndroidTV/GoogleTV to device manufacturers and a few deep pocketed TV manufacturers (Samsung, LG, Sony) did their own for a while before succumbing to the costs of building a consumer-grade software platform. Today, everyone has a hardware offer (either external player or player embedded in TV) and they all point you to a streaming service where the real value (sticky subscription revenue) exists. The external hardware vendors (Roku, Amazon, Apple) all retain a billing platform that gets a slice of the pie for each of the streaming services. So, the hardware is sold at cost and the real money is made on the streaming services -- get a sliver and it's gold.

Harmon Kardon has made an interesting play by buying Roon Labs. They then cheapened their hardware and are now offering a cheap endpoint which requires a Roon subscription. They are now experimenting in the marketplace (see the 60-day trial on this forum) to see if they can get other manufacturers to grow their subscription service. So, WiiM needs to figure out whether they want to build a billing platform for the longer term streaming play or be a speedbump as the hardware costs go down and down. If they can get a slice of the streaming revenue along with providing superior hardware, they'll be a continual presence. Whoever owns the billing platform will hold the financial leverage.

I think many who see 'Roon Ready' don't appreciate that's just the start or end! You need a Roon Server device and then there's the subscription. And that's before, you activate your streaming service (eg. Tidal) subscription. The Harmon Kardon device is not a cheap endpoint, but is a cheaper (€450) Roon server.

Until this last month, Sonos had the plug n play market with decent hardware pretty much sewn up. A sort of Spring fever madness over an attempt to enter the high-end headphone market coupled with a bungled app update scenario shows just how easily a market advantage can be lost or endangered by bad management decisions.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Cheaper hardware will continue to roll out.

Eventually, some major streamer will enter the market and subsidize the hardware. In the TV streaming market (much much larger), Roku started the external hardware streamer category which followed with offers from Amazon and Apple. Further, Google licensed their AndroidTV/GoogleTV to device manufacturers and a few deep pocketed TV manufacturers (Samsung, LG, Sony) did their own for a while before succumbing to the costs of building a consumer-grade software platform. Today, everyone has a hardware offer (either external player or player embedded in TV) and they all point you to a streaming service where the real value (sticky subscription revenue) exists. The external hardware vendors (Roku, Amazon, Apple) all retain a billing platform that gets a slice of the pie for each of the streaming services. So, the hardware is sold at cost and the real money is made on the streaming services -- get a sliver and it's gold.

Harmon Kardon has made an interesting play by buying Roon Labs. They then cheapened their hardware and are now offering a cheap endpoint which requires a Roon subscription. They are now experimenting in the marketplace (see the 60-day trial on this forum) to see if they can get other manufacturers to grow their subscription service. So, WiiM needs to figure out whether they want to build a billing platform for the longer term streaming play or be a speedbump as the hardware costs go down and down. If they can get a slice of the streaming revenue along with providing superior hardware, they'll be a continual presence. Whoever owns the billing platform will hold the financial leverage.

yeh i agree with most of what you've said. however, i do feel that music is different compared to video somewhat. and it's possible to slice out a profitable existence in the "streamer" (/integrated HiFi separates) market without necessarily, as you say, controlling the billing.

it's because the rights across all music streaming services are almost identical (with some exceptions) so there's no "need" for the consumer to pay for multiple services. similarly - music lends itself better to enjoying "accompanying" media at the same time - so that's why there is real value in stuff like roon's curation, artist info etc all being available in the same place. many people also own a mix of physical and digital music, and so there is value in just being the "main aggregaator" of all this into a convenient app experience. not to mention your listening history, likes etc all being tracked too. it's not so useful for me to have access to my "recently played" TV/movie content synced across devices - because there are fewer of them, and because many times they are consumed in a social setting etc. but i think with so much music out there - there is real value in having access to a song you came across on shazam whiled you were out and about on your devices at home.

many people will disagree with me on this because they are brainwashed into thinking freemium is free and that software development/maintenance doesn't cost anything..? but imo WiiM should look into charging something like $10-15 a year for "premium" app features and still make decent margins on the hardware sales as well. this would create brand loyalty, and with a growing number of users - the recurring revenue then becomes significant. this is where sonos messed up, imo - they tried to only make money on the hardware causing price-conscious buyers to avoid their products.

obviously i want SONOS/bluesound/FIIO etc to keep at it - the more competition, the better for us. but imo there is a lot room for innovation in this space and many forget that this is also possible in how you model your business. maybe the exact ideas here are not the ideal. but some experimentation and intent to explore the best model should come from somehwhere.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

I think many who see 'Roon Ready' don't appreciate that's just the start or end! You need a Roon Server device and then there's the subscription. And that's before, you activate your streaming service (eg. Tidal) subscription. The Harmon Kardon device is not a cheap endpoint, but is a cheaper (€450) Roon server.

Until this last month, Sonos had the plug n play market with decent hardware pretty much sewn up. A sort of Spring fever madness over an attempt to enter the high-end headphone market coupled with a bungled app update scenario shows just how easily a market advantage can be lost or endangered by bad management decisions.

yeh that's true. that's why i think roon imo is too expensive for what it is... but tbh there is a fair value there that i would be willing to pay. because many of the features they offer really do save time and enrich the overall experience of listening to music.

still kicking myself for not getting a lifetime license before all the price hikes...

 

[castalla]

Increasingly, music videos are becoming popular (both as official releases, and also as recordings of live concerts, etc.). As far as I know, only Tidal incorporates videos into its listings & does so with great effect.

The first streaming system which can incorporate videos alongside other audio sources will have a unique selling point.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

Increasingly, music videos are becoming popular (both as official releases, and also as recordings of live concerts, etc.). As far as I know, only Tidal incorporates videos into its listings & does so with great effect.

The first streaming system which can incorporate videos alongside other audio sources will have a unique selling point.

yes that would be cool. and i do miss the video feature in tidal on rare occasions tbh. but it only happens rarely and qobuz has better curated playlists etc. so overall it's better for music.

where there is an opportunity for WiiM is to try and compete with roon and spotify - maybe evern surpass them. the rich amount of information available in their app is incredible - lyrics, info about the band, photos etc. spotify has the cool merch section and the touring info.

is there a world where WiiM can incorporate all of that stuff in the WHA by partnering up with bandsintown/songkick/last.fm for the touring info, and providing direct links to merch for the artists etc? again, this is another way somebody can innovate here - possibly a way for WiiM to monetise this.

another cool thing would be deeper integration with shazam/soundhound so that we can get playlists in the WHA automagically. although since shazam is owned by the rotten fruit company - maybe this is a longshot??

 

[slartibartfast]

Increasingly, music videos are becoming popular (both as official releases, and also as recordings of live concerts, etc.). As far as I know, only Tidal incorporates videos into its listings & does so with great effect.

The first streaming system which can incorporate videos alongside other audio sources will have a unique selling point.

I only saw videos on TOTP back in the day and never watched MTV. Do artists still make videos?