Finally some real competition for the WiiM lineup?? 👀

[Jls]

I think many who see 'Roon Ready' don't appreciate that's just the start or end! You need a Roon Server device and then there's the subscription. And that's before, you activate your streaming service (eg. Tidal) subscription. The Harmon Kardon device is not a cheap endpoint, but is a cheaper (€450) Roon server.

Until this last month, Sonos had the plug n play market with decent hardware pretty much sewn up. A sort of Spring fever madness over an attempt to enter the high-end headphone market coupled with a bungled app update scenario shows just how easily a market advantage can be lost or endangered by bad management decisions.

I wondering if Sonos is contemplating a subscription model.

 

[castalla]

I wondering if Sonos is contemplating a subscription model.

I don't get the infinite regression model for attracting users;

Take out a subscription to ABC in order to utilise a subscription to XYZ...

 

[Jls]

I don't get the infinite regression model for attracting users;

Take out a subscription to ABC in order to utilise a subscription to XYZ...

Isn’t that how Roon works? Disclaimer: I don’t know how Roon works, but it seems to be an organizer/player that requires a subscription, but has no content of its own.

 

[d6jg]

Isn’t that how Roon works? Disclaimer: I don’t know how Roon works, but it seems to be an organizer/player that requires a subscription, but has no content of its own.

Correct

 

[Jls]

Correct

So Roon, at $850, does what the Sonos app used to do, only it still works.
And presumably it has a tag editor that works, and no practical limits on numbers of entries.

And it works with Sonos and non Sonos devices.

So there’s value, if you have the money.

I realize you can make monthly payments, and that’s good, if you wind up not liking it, but it will quickly add up to the lifetime cost.

 

[d6jg]

So Roon, at $850, does what the Sonos app used to do, only it still works.
And presumably it has a tag editor that works, and no practical limits on numbers of entries.

And it works with Sonos and non Sonos devices.

So there’s value, if you have the money.

I realize you can make monthly payments, and that’s good, if you wind up not liking it, but it will quickly add up to the lifetime cost.

I have no idea about the specifics. Don't use it and probably never will. Almost certain it has no tag editor.

 

[slartibartfast]

So Roon, at $850, does what the Sonos app used to do, only it still works.
And presumably it has a tag editor that works, and no practical limits on numbers of entries.

And it works with Sonos and non Sonos devices.

So there’s value, if you have the money.

I realize you can make monthly payments, and that’s good, if you wind up not liking it, but it will quickly add up to the lifetime cost.

Roon isn't the only alternative

 

[BrooklynNick]

Harmon Kardon has made an interesting play by buying Roon Labs. They then cheapened their hardware and are now offering a cheap endpoint which requires a Roon subscription.

Harman International purchased Roon, not Harmon Kardon. Two totally different companies. Roon has always required a subscription (with monthly, annual, and lifetime options).

They are now experimenting in the marketplace (see the 60-day trial on this forum) to see if they can get other manufacturers to grow their subscription service.

Roon has offered free trials since day one. You can get one right from their website without buying any hardware: https://roon.app/en/

 

[castalla]

Isn’t that how Roon works? Disclaimer: I don’t know how Roon works, but it seems to be an organizer/player that requires a subscription, but has no content of its own.

Like I said - I don't get it. Let me give you money, so I can use your system to access another outfit which charges me more money...

 

[castalla]

Harman International purchased Roon, not Harmon Kardon. Two totally different companies. Roon has always required a subscription (with monthly, annual, and lifetime options).



Roon has offered free trials since day one. You can get one right from their website without buying any hardware: https://roon.app/en/

I thought it was Samsung who ultimately bought Roon?

 

[BrooklynNick]

You don't *need* to buy a Nucleus or other server for Roon. If you have a computer that is always on, you can use it as your Roon server. I personally use an Intel NUC as my server running Roon ROCK.

I really like Roon for two main reasons:
- I now have reasonably priced (IMO) audio serving every room in my house plus every phone/tablet.
- I have a large collection of ripped CDs and a large set of favorites on Tidal. I don't need to know or care which is which for playback. They are seamlessly combined into a single collection.

It is not for everyone. They don't support most streaming services. It is not inexpensive. If you don't have ripped CDs, you might be better off just using Tidal Connect, Spotify Connect, etc.

 

[slartibartfast]

Harman International purchased Roon, not Harmon Kardon. Two totally different companies. Roon has always required a subscription (with monthly, annual, and lifetime options).



Roon has offered free trials since day one. You can get one right from their website without buying any hardware: https://roon.app/en/

According to this they aren't totally different companies.

Harman International - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[BrooklynNick]

I thought it was Samsung who ultimately bought Roon?

Officially, Roon is now part of Harman International. However, Samsung owns Harman International, so that is not inaccurate.

 

[BrooklynNick]

According to this they aren't totally different companies.

Harman International - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Harman Kardon and Roon are both owned by mega conglomerate Harman International which owns many brands. Harman Kardon has no role in running Roon.

 

[castalla]

You don't *need* to buy a Nucleus or other server for Roon. If you have a computer that is always on, you can use it as your Roon server. I personally use an Intel NUC as my server running Roon ROCK.

I really like Roon for two main reasons:
- I now have reasonably priced (IMO) audio serving every room in my house plus every phone/tablet.
- I have a large collection of ripped CDs and a large set of favorites on Tidal. I don't need to know or care which is which for playback. They are seamlessly combined into a single collection.

It is not for everyone. They don't support most streaming services. It is not inexpensive. If you don't have ripped CDs, you might be better off just using Tidal Connect, Spotify Connect, etc.

OR the free Lyrion Music Server on a €35 raspi - does the same streaming & local files integration, plus a lot more.

 

[Jls]

I might get some grief for this, but the Sonos app used to do this. I could build playlists from my home library, plus anything from any service.

Nothing of what I built is gone, and there’s a third part app that still works with my playlists.

 

[castalla]

I might get some grief for this, but the Sonos app used to do this. I could build playlists from my home library, plus anything from any service.

Nothing of what I built is gone, and there’s a third part app that still works with my playlists.

And only play on Sonos devices, while LMS can play to a wide variety of endpoints, including Sonos.

 

[BrooklynNick]

OR the free Lyrion Music Server on a €35 raspi - does the same streaming & local files integration, plus a lot more.
View attachment 7871

Sure, whatever works for you! I am by no means suggesting that Roon is the only option or even the best option for everyone.

Roon of course has a ton of useful features. I was just listing two that really sold it for me personally. I bought it back when it came out and got a lifetime subscription ($550 back then). Since then, I've gotten dozens of free updates with new features. I listen to music with it every single day and I really enjoy using it to browse. So for me, it is worth the money.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

According to this they aren't totally different companies.

Harman International - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

lmao, and the whole of HKI is just the tiny HiFi wing of the super giga Samsung Chaebol! so yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how it all pans out for roon. i would love to see them innovate here with all the brands under one roof. they could maybe offer roon lifetime with some products. or a cheaper monthly fee if you own the hardware. etc...

i do personally like roon - the metadata and all the cross platform searching and everything is executed brilliantly. but it's still doesn't feel complete somehow. i also have LMS running on my NAS which really cool - only started using it cos of everybody on these forums - been a couple months... but yeh - i can't really look past the WiiM home app just cos integration of streaming is good, and overall the pace of development is really impressive.

never gave sonos a try but i have many friends who stil swear by their ecosystem approach. it's sad to see them go mess up the amazing lead they had in multiroom. but it's their own fault for resting on their laurels and recently they've made some questionable decisions according to their biggest fans even. this has allowed new players to enter the market so i don't really care. but i just hope that the new entrants grasp the importance of the software side of things when trying to understand the value proposition they are offering their customers the same way sonos did in the early days...

and also like i keep repeating - hope the new players are not afraid to experiment with the business model. if it doesn't work and the community pushes back in any way and plans have to be scaled back - it's not a big deal. we'll forgive you - as long as you seem to be trying to get to a mutually beneficial aim... i'm not sure that many brands in electronics understand this

 

[hoohoohoo]

Harman International purchased Roon, not Harmon Kardon. Two totally different companies. Roon has always required a subscription (with monthly, annual, and lifetime options).



Roon has offered free trials since day one. You can get one right from their website without buying any hardware: https://roon.app/en/

Yeah...I conflated the Harmon Kardon brand with Harman International which is the evolved current corporate structure. Harman International owns the Harman Kardon brand (which was the granddad of it all). And Harman International is a subsidiary of Samsung. Agree that the ownership level in the company structure matters for the operational control aspect.

Harman International - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Harman International Industries, Inc., commonly known as Harman (stylized as HARMAN), is an American audio electronics company.[3] Since 2017, the company has been operating as an independent subsidiary of Samsung Electronics.[4]

Headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut, US, it has its own executive leadership team.[5] Harman maintains major operations in the Americas, Europe, and Asia. Harman markets its products under various brands, including AKG, AMX, Arcam,[6] Bang & Olufsen Automotive, Becker, BSS Audio, Crown, dbx, Harman Kardon, Infinity, JBL, Lexicon, Mark Levinson, Martin, Revel, and Soundcraft.