Gapless issues over DLNA with Pro and JRiver MC

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Driftdive

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Joined
Apr 6, 2023
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15
Hi,

My first post here after taking delivery of a WiiM Pro today. Initial thoughts were very impressed indeed, but after some listening I came across a problem I thought wasn't an issue, gapless playback? Hopefully there is a solution I've missed, as I really like the player and don't want to return it, but this is a deal breaker for me.

System:

JRiver27 on a dedicated music server running on Linux Debian11 and set to act as a Music Server. Nothing else runs on this server, just JRiver sharing FLAC files over the network via DLNA.
WiiM Pro in a second room connected to a Rega DAC (tested over both Coax and S/PDIF) and hard wired to the network, with WiFi turned off in the settings and fixed volume output selected. EQ is also off.

I get quite a gap between songs, in particular I just played Dark Side of the Moon and there was over a 4 second gap between Time and The Great Gig in the Sky. I also experience a crackle sound at the start of some songs, it's not loud but it's very noticeable, especially on headphones, again on both Coax and S/PDIF. I have tried running the Pro on the supplied power adapter and with a large USB 5V power bank, same thing whatever combination I try.

Playing Dark Side of the Moon via Qobuz however, I don't experience this issue, it plays gaplessly, it's just 16/44.1 FLAC files over DLNA from JRiver it seems.

Prior to this I have been running Volumio 3 on an Intel i5NUC acting as a DLNA renderer in the exact same setup as above with no issues at all.

Is there something I have missed or is this a bug/issue?
 
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Mike in NY said:
How about kick JRemote to the curb and use BubbleUPnP for all of $5 or so? You can control Qobuz from there too.
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Haha, you don't know how funny that is Mike - I have a friend here who keeps badgering me to do the same . . . I think it's a conspiracy!

I'll give it a go, but don't tell him as I can see the gloat forming on his face already :)
 
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simbun said:
I had to check that as mconnect is one of the apps I recommend for iOS users. It also has a gapless setting that makes it work with Jriver, at least the Android version does (Settings > Gapless: Gapless to Renderer).
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I used mconnect HD (tablet version) for iOS, and no combination of the two gapless settings (i.e. gapless by app, nor gapless to renderer, or both) worked with my JRiver server to the WiiM Pro. I can test the non-tablet Android version of mconnect too.

simbun said:
I have no idea about the JPLAY app itself, but someone joined another forum just to tell us all about it, and their marketing is full of nonsense, the best being:
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It is an excellent app but far too expensive, I don't see me renewing it after my first year of subscription is up. The controversy with their claims of sound quality improvement are not new, they always made those same claims with their PC version going back many years now. I didn't buy the iOS app for any supposed sound quality advantage, just looking for something to potentially replace mconnect HD on iOS for use with iPad. I did not download anything from their website, the app was installed on my iPad through the Apple App Store as typical.

Again, it's a good app for iOS, the Qobuz implementation is excellent, and it isn't fussy with UPnP either, but really only a consideration for the non-price sensitive shall we say? I will likely dump it after 1 year unless they offer me a substantial discount to continue. I don't like the subscription pricing model at all, though I understand that it probably allows for more constant development to take place with a continuous revenue stream to the developer as opposed to once and done buys.

To me the gold standard for value remains BubbleUPnP, to the extent that staunch iOS users should acquire an inexpensive Android device for use if nothing else as a dedicated control point.
 
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simbun said:
Based on their findings, once I've started a track I now put my phone (control point) into airplane mode so I can benefit from the dramatically better sound quality too!
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Not good enough, you'll need to physically disconnect all other networked devices to quiet the network and achieve total nirvana, anything else is a huge compromise. Easter Sunday is probably not the right day for such an epiphany however, but putting your phone in airplane mode is a big first step.
 
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simbun said:
I had to check that as mconnect is one of the apps I recommend for iOS users. It also has a gapless setting that makes it work with Jriver, at least the Android version does (Settings > Gapless: Gapless to Renderer).
Click to expand...
I just checked this using mconnect (not the HD/tablet version) on Android, and the same problem exists with lack of gapless playback from my Linux-based JRiver 25 media server.

BubbleUPnP looks to be the ticket here, as usual.
 
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Mike in NY said:
I just checked this using mconnect (not the HD/tablet version) on Android, and the same problem exists with lack of gapless playback from my Linux-based JRiver 25 media server.

BubbleUPnP looks to be the ticket here, as usual.
Click to expand...
I apologise, you're absolutely right.
I just tested again and there's gaps every time! I've got JRiver, Audirvāna, LMS, Serviio, Jellyfin, MusicBee, KODI, Plex, MinimServer and AssetUPnP all installed (into sandboxes mainly for testing with WiiM) so I can only imagine that I chose the wrong server!
Still, nice to have BubbleUPnP rise to the top again :)
 
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Mr Ee said:
No pun intended, right?
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Completely unintentional ;)
Mr Ee said:
I even find bubbleupnp to be a better solution for specific playback scenarios than trying to achieve the same directly in native apps.
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When you've used BubbleUPnP for any amount of time you become blasé about the complexity of UPnP, you begin to think that it's this robust protocol and everything "just works", until that is you try and use a different control point, however, it's not like Bubble just knows the one correct way of doing things.
When I was trying to understand why WiiM (the renderer) wouldn't play files served by MinimServer one of the things I did was to put BubbleUPnP in debug mode, and I saw that Bubble actually attempted 5 different ways of sending the file to WiiM, and attempted each method twice.

Method 1 I assume using parameters that work for most renderers
Method 2 substituted protocolInfo mimeType audio/x-flac => audio/flac
Method 3 retrying without 4th protocolInfo field
Method 4 using exact renderer protocolInfo: http-get:*:audio/flac:*
Method 5 retrying without metadata

I reckon if you printed out the BubbleUPnP source code you could sell it as an encyclopedia of bad UPnP implementations! It gives you some appreciaton of just what it's doing behind the scenes to make this all work.

@Driftdive , putting Bubble into debug mode whilst playing gapless from JRiver may give the devs there some idea about exactly how to get it working.

And then there's BubbleUPnP Server! Personally I use it only for adding OpenHome functionality to the my UPnP renderers (including the WiiM) so the phone isn't responsible for advancing the queue, but it can be used to configure per rendeder transcoding, internet access and also to make both servers and renderers more compatible e.g. If I use BubbleUPnP server to proxy MinimServer then I can use it with the WiiM because it uses a different URL scheme that the WiiM can handle.

And I've had all of this for many years now for the princely sum of about £4!
 
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With the new beta firmware on the pro it looks to have addressed most of the issues with Jriver.
I've just played a FLAC track that I split into 10 second chunks and all the transitions were gapless, both from Jriver direct and via mconnect. I can't test Jremote as it'll cost me £9.49 but it looks promising.
 
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I'm on FW 4.8.515159 and I still dont have gapless playback using JRiver sending to a WiiM Pro as a zone.

Gapless only works using the WiiM Home app and BubbleUPnP on the JRiver music share. Unfortunately, my full library no longer loads using the WiiM app... only loads to the M's.

What's the beta FW mentioned above that has gapless working directly from JRiver?
 
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rwpritchett said:
I'm on FW 4.8.515159 and I still dont have gapless playback using JRiver sending to a WiiM Pro as a zone.

Gapless only works using the WiiM Home app and BubbleUPnP on the JRiver music share. Unfortunately, my full library no longer loads using the WiiM app... only loads to the M's.

What's the beta FW mentioned above that has gapless working directly from JRiver?
Click to expand...
Beta firmware was 4.8.516730
 
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I
simbun said:
You reported that Symfonium isn't gapless (yet) either, so I'm not sure that will help.
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No ! you misread : I reported the opposite.

I reported that Symfonium has a very clean UPNP Gapless support, deducing that if it didn't work with Wiim : then something had to be fixed on Wiim side.

Which has been done in the latest Wiim update, and now Symfonium plays perfectly UPNP gapless playback on Wiim.

Symfonium is fully gapless, and is also the most advanced and feature rich audio player available : 10 years ahead of everything else.
 
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