Gapless issues over DLNA with Pro and JRiver MC

[Driftdive]

Hi,

My first post here after taking delivery of a WiiM Pro today. Initial thoughts were very impressed indeed, but after some listening I came across a problem I thought wasn't an issue, gapless playback? Hopefully there is a solution I've missed, as I really like the player and don't want to return it, but this is a deal breaker for me.

System:

JRiver27 on a dedicated music server running on Linux Debian11 and set to act as a Music Server. Nothing else runs on this server, just JRiver sharing FLAC files over the network via DLNA.
WiiM Pro in a second room connected to a Rega DAC (tested over both Coax and S/PDIF) and hard wired to the network, with WiFi turned off in the settings and fixed volume output selected. EQ is also off.

I get quite a gap between songs, in particular I just played Dark Side of the Moon and there was over a 4 second gap between Time and The Great Gig in the Sky. I also experience a crackle sound at the start of some songs, it's not loud but it's very noticeable, especially on headphones, again on both Coax and S/PDIF. I have tried running the Pro on the supplied power adapter and with a large USB 5V power bank, same thing whatever combination I try.

Playing Dark Side of the Moon via Qobuz however, I don't experience this issue, it plays gaplessly, it's just 16/44.1 FLAC files over DLNA from JRiver it seems.

Prior to this I have been running Volumio 3 on an Intel i5NUC acting as a DLNA renderer in the exact same setup as above with no issues at all.

Is there something I have missed or is this a bug/issue?

 

[BGLeduc]

The WiiM Home app doesn't index your data, it just presents the xml that's sent from your server. I only have about 1500 albums but the WiiM app displays them instantly, quicker than my normal controller of choice - hardly surprising I suppose given it doesn't display any artwork and only requests 200 at a time from the server.

Are you not seeing artwork due to a specific setting you are using? I am seeing artwork here with my setup. This is just a subset of my artists. Album art also displays.

 

[simbun]

Are you not seeing artwork due to a specific setting you are using? I am seeing artwork here with my setup. This is just a subset of my artists. Album art also displays.

MinimServer and AssetUPnP display icons/artwork for every level, but in the WiiM app I only see artwork once I've selected an album.
What music server are you using? Is the WiiM app running on iOS?

 

[BGLeduc]

MinimServer and AssetUPnP display icons/artwork for every level, but in the WiiM app I only see artwork once I've selected an album.
What music server are you using? Is the WiiM app running on iOS?

jRiver with the Legacy UPnP server option. Yes, WiiM home is running on iOS.

 

[Driftdive]

OK thanks guys, it's not a good experience on the WiiM for my sized library, at least not via my two Android devices and the WiiM Home app, maybe iOS is a better experience? I’m used to an instant response so any kind of lag or delay I find frustrating – it’s not quick enough for me, but I didn’t expect it to be, so I’m not disappointed in that regard. It’s going to be used exclusively for streaming Qobuz now, it’s really good at that

I’m actually just about to install JRiver onto my i5NUC and I’m going to take DNLA/UPnP out of the equation by using a USB bridge to my DAC, most likely via a Singxer SU-6 DDC – I’m only prepared to spend so much time messing about, I just want to play music. I really enjoy the experience of browsing through my cover art with JRiver and JRemote, a lot of which is signed as I’ve scanned it myself. JRemote2 works very well in that regard. It makes me feel more connected to my music collection, even though it’s a digital file, it’s a rip of a CD I own and the cover art and metadata are correct – I’m a bit old school and a bit fussy!

 

[Brantome]

OK thanks guys, it's not a good experience on the WiiM for my sized library, at least not via my two Android devices and the WiiM Home app, maybe iOS is a better experience? I’m used to an instant response so any kind of lag or delay I find frustrating – it’s not quick enough for me, but I didn’t expect it to be, so I’m not disappointed in that regard. It’s going to be used exclusively for streaming Qobuz now, it’s really good at that

I’m actually just about to install JRiver onto my i5NUC and I’m going to take DNLA out of the equation by using a USB bridge to my DAC, most likely via a Singxer SU-6 DDC – I’m only prepared to spend so much time messing about, I just want to play music. I really enjoy the experience of browsing through my cover art with JRiver and JRemote, a lot of which is signed as I’ve scanned it myself. JRemote2 works very well in that regard. It makes me feel more connected to my music collection, even though it’s a digital file, it’s a rip of a CD I own and the cover art and metadata are correct – I’m a bit old school and a bit fussy!

LMS might be something to look at installing as an alternative, given that as well as displaying albums art etc, it can pull in artist bio, reviews, lyrics etc as well. Sort of a poor man’s Roon

 

[Driftdive]

I like LMS, used it in the past - I'll ponder that, so thanks for the suggestion Brantome.

I've just binned Roon actually due to the dependency of Roon 2.0 on an internet connection, that's what prompted all this change - I used to enjoy tinkering with digital audio and building servers, but now I just want to turn it on and for it to work with minimal interaction from me. Music is my focus now rather than gear.

 

[MrSoul4470]

@simbun: Absolutely right. I read here over and over again in this forum that the Wiim app is slow showing media server content and smiliar issues. Those are server problems and have nothing to do with the Wiim device or app. The app only displays what the server sends. I use foobar2000 with the upnp plugin and everything works as it should (about 40.000 songs in my library). Showing the entire content of my largest folders with more than 1.000 songs takes only seconds.

 

[simbun]

jRiver with the Legacy UPnP server option. Yes, WiiM home is running on iOS.

When you say 'Legacy UPnP server option' do you just mean that you've enabled the 'Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA' under Media Network?
In BubbleUPnP and Hi-Fi Cast I see the artwork, but again nothing until I've selected an album in WiiM. I didn't realise there was a disparity in the apps!
Does it show the AlbumArtist when displaying lists of albums, and what about Track Artist on track listings? In Android we currently see the AlbumArtist below each track in the track listing.

 

[BGLeduc]

When you say 'Legacy UPnP server option' do you just mean that you've enabled the 'Use Media Network to share this library and enable DLNA' under Media Network?
In BubbleUPnP and Hi-Fi Cast I see the artwork, but again nothing until I've selected an album in WiiM. I didn't realise there was a disparity in the apps!
Does it show the AlbumArtist when displaying lists of albums, and what about Track Artist on track listings? In Android we currently see the AlbumArtist below each track in the track listing.

Yes, one of the options available in jRiver when selecting server type is labeled “Legacy UpnP”.

When I connect to my server, I see this:



Then this:


I see no album artist or track artist.

 

[Driftdive]

@simbun: Absolutely right. I read here over and over again in this forum that the Wiim app is slow showing media server content and smiliar issues. Those are server problems and have nothing to do with the Wiim device or app. The app only displays what the server sends. I use foobar2000 with the upnp plugin and everything works as it should (about 40.000 songs in my library). Showing the entire content of my largest folders with more than 1.000 songs takes only seconds.

That's all as maybe, I'm just describing my experience as honestly as I can in order to try and share that knowledge, to hopefully solve my issue and improve the product so it works well with commonly used software like JRiver. Especially for those people who are less computer savvy.

I've no doubt it works well with a number of other packages, but it's got a problem with JRiver (or vice versa), that isn't an issue for other DLNA/UPnP clients I've tried JRiver with, including a Hegel amplifier. I agree foobar2000 is fantastic, I used it for a number of years, in fact it was the first thing I tried when I became interested in file based audio - it's lightweight and works well and it's free - not much not to like really, but I'm not using foobar2000 with the WiiM, I'm using JRiver as a Music Server on a Linux/Debian OS computer - which is what JRiver recommends people use who want to run it on Linux. So I'm not doing anything I would consider that outlandish!

 

[simbun]

When I connect to my server, I see this:

Then this:

I see no album artist or track artist.

I see the artwork in your images when using other control points but with WiiM app on Android I just see:

Everything is just a list until you get to the track listing when we're graced with the album artwork.
This might explain why some people have been saying it's not that bad (which it still is, but not quite as bad as the Android version).

 

[BGLeduc]

I see the artwork in your images when using other control points but with WiiM app on Android I just see:
View attachment 704
Everything is just a list until you get to the track listing when we're graced with the album artwork.
This might explain why some people have been saying it's not that bad (which it still is, but not quite as bad as the Android version).

I don’t know if it matters, but my jRiver is running on a Mac, so I am Apple on both the server side and at the WiiM app.

 

[simbun]

I don’t know if it matters, but my jRiver is running on a Mac, so I am Apple on both the server side and at the WiiM app.

It's nothing to do with JRiver, every other UPnP app shows artwork (across other music servers), just not the WiiM Android app.

 

[Brantome]

It's nothing to do with JRiver, every other UPnP app shows artwork (across other music servers), just not the WiiM Android app.

Strange that the WiiM iOS app does, but the Android version doesn’t..

 

[simbun]

Strange that the WiiM iOS app does, but the Android version doesn’t..

Are you confirming that you see the same on Android?

 

[Brantome]

Are you confirming that you see the same on Android?

on iOS (with artwork) and Android (without artwork) respectively, this is what I see.

 

[simbun]

I hadn't realised the iOS version was any different.
It's really jarring coming from a fully customised MinimServer on BubbleUPnP to that Android listing!

 

[Mike in NY]

I see the same problems with lack of gapless playback from a Linux-based JRiver 25 media server (No conversion) to a WiiM Pro using either JRemote, or mConnect, as the control point.
However I also see that gapless playback does in fact miraculously work when using JPLAY (iOS only) as the control point.
I know, JPLAY is a stupid effing $50 per year subscription which is beyond annoying, however I thought it worth noting here that it actually works.
Gapless playback also works for me using BubbleUPnP (Android only) as the control point when selecting the gapless option in the Renderer settings specific to the WiiM Pro as endpoint.
If the Wiim Home app isn't to one's liking as a UPnP control point, I'd suggest BubbleUPnP on Android devices at all of $5 or so. Or if iOS is your only control point option, one needs to start liking the WiiM Home app a bit more then, otherwise JPLAY is a fine option that will lighten your wallet by $50 per year.

 

[Mike in NY]

I’m actually just about to install JRiver onto my i5NUC and I’m going to take DNLA/UPnP out of the equation by using a USB bridge to my DAC, most likely via a Singxer SU-6 DDC – I’m only prepared to spend so much time messing about, I just want to play music.

How about kick JRemote to the curb and use BubbleUPnP for all of $5 or so? You can control Qobuz from there too.

 

[simbun]

I see the same problems with lack of gapless playback from a Linux-based JRiver 25 media server (No conversion) to a WiiM Pro using either JRemote, or mConnect, as the control point.

I had to check that as mconnect is one of the apps I recommend for iOS users. It also has a gapless setting that makes it work with Jriver, at least the Android version does (Settings > Gapless: Gapless to Renderer).

However I also see that gapless playback does in fact miraculously work when using JPLAY (iOS only) as the control point.
I know, JPLAY is a stupid effing $50 per year subscription which is beyond annoying, however I thought it worth noting here that it actually works.

I have no idea about the JPLAY app itself, but someone joined another forum just to tell us all about it, and their marketing is full of nonsense, the best being:

Dramatically better sound quality thanks to minimizing network traffic

They say they achieve this by:

• indexing the music themselves so traffic between the control point and the server is minimised
• the possibility to increase the polling time between renderer and control point to 12000 seconds

The FAQ for one of their other products is also worth a read Notice the insecure website too.