Home Music Share with Plex

[Wiim_Mike]

It seems Plex is the recommended DLNA server, so I have set up Plex Server running on a windows 10 PC. When I go to access it through the Wiim Home app, I can see the server but from there it just gets flaky. I have to double tap on the phone app (double tap for android??) to get any response at all and then only get a response sometimes. Sometimes, I can get through to the list of my albums but mostly I get as far as the choice screen for how I want to view music, Artist, Album, Genre etc But choosing any of these rarely works. I say rarely because sometimes it works and then I can choose and play an album and it works just fine. After trying for about an hour, it has just then worked after changing nothing.

Does anybody else experience this? It's pretty frustrating.

All internet streaming services work as expected but not playing my own files locally. Roll on SMB and local indexing because DLNA is just not worth the hassle from my experience.

Mike

 

[Mr Ee]

I thought there were previous threads with issues using plex?
I recall someome using Kodi, but that might not have been to replace plex, maybe something else...
Have you tried bubbleupnp (android app, free to try) to see if that's any better?
I think it should see the plex server, but Bubble also supports smb for simple folder browsing.

 

[Wiim_Mike]

Hi, yes there are other posts about Plex but none with my specific problem. I have tried other servers from WMP to JRiver on a different PC, all with the same result. Works only very sporadically.

 

[simbun]

It seems Plex is the recommended DLNA server, so I have set up Plex Server running on a windows 10 PC. When I go to access it through the Wiim Home app, I can see the server but from there it just gets flaky. I have to double tap on the phone app (double tap for android??) to get any response at all and then only get a response sometimes.

I've only a test instance of Plex with very few albums indexed but it works fine here.

All internet streaming services work as expected but not playing my own files locally. Roll on SMB and local indexing because DLNA is just not worth the hassle from my experience.

I'd be very surprised if SMB/local indexing is ever going to be the better option.

Hi, yes there are other posts about Plex but none with my specific problem. I have tried other servers from WMP to JRiver on a different PC, all with the same result. Works only very sporadically.

Given you're having problems with multiple servers it sounds like it could be something your end. I run MinimServer and in my extensive testing it's been faultless, so it might be worth trying that and if you still experience problems then it's defintely not with the servers. Were you running UPnP before the WiiM?

 

[d6jg]

Plex themselves would not claim that Plex is by any means the best DLNA server. DLNA support is only there because you can't install the Plex app on every device.

 

[Wiim_Mike]

It seems that BubbleUPnp is far more resilient though it, too, had issues with the Plex instance I had running on my NAS server. I have got it running using JRiver's DLNA server on a different PC and Bubble as the controller. Thus far it seems pretty stable. There must be something about my other NAS that blocks DLNA/UPnP traffic.

SMB on Bubble just worked straight off, even from the problematic server. This is my experience with SMB: things using this approach (Volumio, Kodi, HEOS, Foobar, JRiver, things that just read files direct) all seem to work without any of the vagaries that come with DLNA.

But, I have a workable solution now with Bubble and JRiver so thanks to those who pushed me in that direction.

 

[simbun]

This is my experience with SMB: things using this approach (Volumio, Kodi, HEOS, Foobar, JRiver, things that just read files direct) all seem to work without any of the vagaries that come with DLNA.

Whilst these servers may or may not be using SMB to access your underlying music files, they'll all be using DLNA to play to the WiiM.

SMB browsing in the context of this conversation is not about how the server accesses the music, it's about how the controller (BubbleUPnP, WiiM app e.t.c.) does. With SMB browsing you're using the controller (BubbleUPnP or maybe the WiiM app in time) to connect directly to your fileshare (no intermediate server software) and browse the directory structure of your music. It's not a good solution, it'll be somewhat similar to "browse by folder" using the DLNA servers mentioned above.

DLNA can be a very robust solution - it has been for me for many years - unfortunately it's heavily dependent on the network.

 

[Wiim_Mike]

Whilst these servers may or may not be using SMB to access your underlying music files, they'll all be using DLNA to play to the WiiM.

SMB browsing in the context of this conversation is not about how the server accesses the music, it's about how the controller (BubbleUPnP, WiiM app e.t.c.) does. With SMB browsing you're using the controller (BubbleUPnP or maybe the WiiM app in time) to connect directly to your fileshare (no intermediate server software) and browse the directory structure of your music. It's not a good solution, it'll be somewhat similar to "browse by folder" using the DLNA servers mentioned above.

DLNA can be a very robust solution - it has been for me for many years - unfortunately it's heavily dependent on the network.

You're missing my point. All those products access files directly and supposedly, Wiim Home will have that capability sometime in the future. They also provide library and metadata functionality to provide as rich an experience as DLNA, with none of the flaky network dependency. Should no reason why Wiim Home cannot do that as well. Bluesound does it well, as another example.

 

[d6jg]

You're missing my point. All those products access files directly and supposedly, Wiim Home will have that capability sometime in the future. They also provide library and metadata functionality to provide as rich an experience as DLNA, with none of the flaky network dependency. Should no reason why Wiim Home cannot do that as well. Bluesound does it well, as another example.

The point is that SMB (Windows file) browsing is not ever going to provide the seamless experience that a user would want - the WiiM app would need to create and access to an internal database to do so.
The DLNA server should provide the data to the WiiM app on demand but with a large library of local music this is still a sub-optimal process.
There are DLNA servers that are better or worse at the task.
Simbun's method is a hybrid work around.

 

[simbun]

You're missing my point. All those products access files directly and supposedly, Wiim Home will have that capability sometime in the future. They also provide library and metadata functionality to provide as rich an experience as DLNA, with none of the flaky network dependency. Should no reason why Wiim Home cannot do that as well. Bluesound does it well, as another example.

Oh, you're talking about each having their own proprietary system that only works with their own software/hardware renderers.
Personally I don't see that as a selling point, but it's possible that WiiM will develop something like that, although it's unlikely to be any more that a basic smb browsing experience unless they develop server apps to index the music (which admittedly the Windows beta app is starting to do).

 

[d6jg]

I'm going to throw in my 2p about LMS (and Roon) with regard to this. In both cases all of the hard work is done on the server with each having a database which is presented using an inbuilt web server and HTML5.

In LMS's case this is via the Material GUI plugin and with Roon it is via their iOS/Android/Windows/Mac apps but in both cases there is clever stuff going on behind the scenes such that when you ask for a list of albums you see a scrollable list. The client (App or Browser) doesn't initially see everything but as you scroll down more data is delivered from the server from a highly optimised cache which makes it very seamless.

DLNA is different. It doesn't use a web server and definitely doesn't use HTML5. It uses a wholly different protocol which tbh I don't know a great deal about but I do know that the "standard" isn't stictly adhered to which is what causes all of the issues. Actually there is no standard - DLNA devices can be DLNA Certified, DLNA Compliant, or DLNA Compatible.

Plex (when used with its own app) is similar to LMS/Roon but as a DLNA server it is very basic. Of the DLNA servers I have used I consider MInimserver and Asset to be probably the best but neither comes close to LMS (or Roon for that matter).

SMB is just file browsing - no database to speed things up

 

[simbun]

DLNA is different. It doesn't use a web server

Yes it does.

and definitely doesn't use HTML5

You can create a client using whatever technology you want. I'm sure there's a HTML5 client somewhere.

It uses a wholly different protocol which tbh I don't know a great deal about but I do know that the "standard" isn't stictly adhered to which is what causes all of the issues. Actually there is no standard - DLNA devices can be DLNA Certified, DLNA Compliant, or DLNA Compatible.

DLNA is just a subset of UPnP which there absolutely is a spec for, but if you ask 10 companies to build something to a spec you'll probably get 10 very slightly different results.

UPnP works much the same way as LMS in that the server is responsible for indexing and caching the music metadata and for how (within the limitations of the spec) the browse tree is going to look/work. The client connects and makes requests to the server which returns xml containing metadata about the next browse step in the process which the control point is responsible for rendering. All file (image, music e.t.c.) resources contained within the xml are http resources fulfilled by the music server.

The big difference is that Roon/LMS/Plex control both the server and control point so they have full control of exactly what is displayed and how, whereas in UPnP you can only work within the provisions of the spec e.g. there's no point MinimServer providing an Artist bio if the control points don't know what to do with it.

Anyway, the important thing is that with the flexibility of the WiiM we have some great options available to us.

 

[d6jg]

Yes it does.

You can create a client using whatever technology you want. I'm sure there's a HTML5 client somewhere.

DLNA is just a subset of UPnP which there absolutely is a spec for, but if you ask 10 companies to build something to a spec you'll probably get 10 very slightly different results.

UPnP works much the same way as LMS in that the server is responsible for indexing and caching the music metadata and for how (within the limitations of the spec) the browse tree is going to look/work. The client connects and makes requests to the server which returns xml containing metadata about the next browse step in the process which the control point is responsible for rendering. All file (image, music e.t.c.) resources contained within the xml are http resources fulfilled by the music server.

The big difference is that Roon/LMS/Plex control both the server and control point so they have full control of exactly what is displayed and how, whereas in UPnP you can only work within the provisions of the spec e.g. there's no point MinimServer providing an Artist bio if the control points don't know what to do with it.

Anyway, the important thing is that with the flexibility of the WiiM we have some great options available to us.

That's a better explanation than mine.

Yes on reflection there is a web server in play in DLNA but the critical part is as you say the partially unknown quantity that is the control point and renderer. LMS (and I suggest also Roon and Plex in native mode) doesn't recognise the concept of a control point in DLNA/UPnP terms. Control is via HTML/HTML5 interaction (web/app) direct to the server which in turn controls the player and tells it what to do - start/stop/play etc

We do have plenty of options that is true.

 

[bknusa]

On your windows pc how tight is your security Chatgpt suggests for DLnA open port 5001 (TCP) and 1900 (UDP). It seems that Microsoft uses 2869 (TCP) for SSDP event notifications only with the legacy port for this service being 5000 (TCP).

When you installed those other DLnA servers it might have opened those ports if not then try hard coding in security setting. You might also open up windows media center once. It might also open those ports.

Do you have sharing turned on?

Everyone is correct the WIiM device can be a DLnA client but it’s just going to connect to a DLnA server and be presented with whatever the server is sending basically a table of contents and pointers to the music.

 

[Pcryan5]

I use Plex with a Western Digital My Cloud server running Plex. It takes six steps/taps to reach my artists names. Is there any way to set up a more direct shortcut? Thanks
~Lazy Peter

 

[simbun]

I use Plex with a Western Digital My Cloud server running Plex. It takes six steps/taps to reach my artists names. Is there any way to set up a more direct shortcut?

Plex controls the browsing hierarchy (everything beyond the media server selection in the WHA) and from a quick look there doesn't appear to be a way to customise that, so if your only option is Plex on the WD Cloud then it might be worth looking at Hi-Fi Cast (assuming you're on Android) as it let's you set the root folder from which to begin browsing.

 

[Pcryan5]

Plex controls the browsing hierarchy (everything beyond the media server selection in the WHA) and from a quick look there doesn't appear to be a way to customise that, so if your only option is Plex on the WD Cloud then it might be worth looking at Hi-Fi Cast (assuming you're on Android) as it let's you set the root folder from which to begin browsing.

Thank you very much Simbun. Appreciate you taking the time and this helps. (Plex doesn’t )