[solved] Crackling distortions when switching tracks

[effortless]

When I listen to Qobuz -via WiiM Pro to an external dac-, whenever I switch tracks (with the forward-button), I hear a high-pitched crackling distortion (like smashing the needle to a vinyl record). I filed this feedback via the app today (#10190)

I found multiple threads online regarding this issue, so my question is:

• Is this problem acknowledged by WiiM and will it be worked upon,
• or is it considered to be a dac problem (which would make the WiimPro obsolete in my setup).

When does it occur:

• Only when actively switching tracks, between the tracks - or sometimes even if I move position inside a track,
• Mostly when tracks have different sampling rate - sometimes when the sampling rate stays the same

Setup:

• Device: WiiM Pro 4.8.511631 2023-03-23
• Audio output: Coax and
• Audio output: Spdif
• Connection: LAN

Dac:

• Corda Daccord FF

Streaming service: Qobuz

• - From within the WiiM Home app on iOS 2.4.2 with Music service: Quoboz
• - From Qobuz App iOS 7.1.0 directly via Chromecast to WiiM Pro Receiver

The only way for me to stop this crackling was:

• From Qobuz App iOS 7.1.0 via Apple AirPlay to WiiM Pro Receiver, though resulting in a fixed CD-quality 44khz
• Or just don't switch tracks, and let the playlist run. Then, even with different resulutions, I hear no crackling from one track to the next.

Googling for the search terms 'crackling tracks streamer' gives some hints to the problem:

• BlueNote has fixed it in 2020 "Popping sound when switching tracks/playlist"
• Roon has a setting "Resync Delay" in their knowledge base with a plausible explanation
• audiosciencereview suggests its a SPIDF issue of some Dacs. There was a hint to use EQ (to get a normalized sampling) but this did not help in my case.
• the WiiM forums have many reports but less hints to a solution (other than buying another Dac)

Googling does not make me an expert. I can wild guess that the reason why so many users report crackling noise between the tracks in WiiM Mini and Pro for a couple of different Dacs is because of the gapless technologie which does not leave enough time for certain DAC/SPDIF to lock on a new rate/timing. A gap with a mute, a fade with a real 0 might point to a solution, but what do I know.

I am pretty sure it is not about swiching coax cables, toslink cables, wifi, lan, or power supply, and it affects multiple common dacs (as customers with Schiit and Topping have reported it, too).

It is probably right to assume that the Dac or the SPDIF standard is to blame, but this does not fix the issue. Other companies have found workarounds, so I hope WiiM gets an update soon. Especially since the issue only shows when actively switching tracks.

 

[Maurizio]

When I listen to Qobuz -via WiiM Pro to an external dac-, whenever I switch tracks (with the forward-button), I hear a high-pitched crackling distortion (like smashing the needle to a vinyl record). I filed this feedback via the app today (#10190)

I found multiple threads online regarding this issue, so my question is:

• Is this problem acknowledged by WiiM and will it be worked upon,
• or is it considered to be a dac problem (which would make the WiimPro obsolete in my setup).

When does it occur:

• Only when actively switching tracks, between the tracks - or sometimes even if I move position inside a track,
• Mostly when tracks have different sampling rate - sometimes when the sampling rate stays the same

Setup:

• Device: WiiM Pro 4.8.511631 2023-03-23
• Audio output: Coax and
• Audio output: Spdif
• Connection: LAN

Dac:

• Corda Daccord FF

Streaming service: Qobuz

• - From within the WiiM Home app on iOS 2.4.2 with Music service: Quoboz
• - From Qobuz App iOS 7.1.0 directly via Chromecast to WiiM Pro Receiver

The only way for me to stop this crackling was:

• From Qobuz App iOS 7.1.0 via Apple AirPlay to WiiM Pro Receiver, though resulting in a fixed CD-quality 44khz
• Or just don't switch tracks, and let the playlist run. Then, even with different resulutions, I hear no crackling from one track to the next.

Googling for the search terms 'crackling tracks streamer' gives some hints to the problem:

• BlueNote has fixed it in 2020 "Popping sound when switching tracks/playlist"
• Roon has a setting "Resync Delay" in their knowledge base with a plausible explanation
• audiosciencereview suggests its a SPIDF issue of some Dacs. There was a hint to use EQ (to get a normalized sampling) but this did not help in my case.
• the WiiM forums have many reports but less hints to a solution (other than buying another Dac)

Googling does not make me an expert. I can wild guess that the reason why so many users report crackling noise between the tracks in WiiM Mini and Pro for a couple of different Dacs is because of the gapless technologie which does not leave enough time for certain DAC/SPDIF to lock on a new rate/timing. A gap with a mute, a fade with a real 0 might point to a solution, but what do I know.

I am pretty sure it is not about swiching coax cables, toslink cables, wifi, lan, or power supply, and it affects multiple common dacs (as customers with Schiit and Topping have reported it, too).

It is probably right to assume that the Dac or the SPDIF standard is to blame, but this does not fix the issue. Other companies have found workarounds, so I hope WiiM gets an update soon. Especially since the issue only shows when actively switching tracks.

Hi @effortless
I have a Pro connected via COAX to Topping D50s and this last to my HiFi.
Well, i have and use Qobuz, but i have never experienced your cracling problems.
I can go back and forth through tracks with no probs.
I listen to Qobuz via BubbleUPnP on Android and via Mconnect on IOS.
I have choosen these two Apps because i can obtain the max. 24/192 and Gapeless Music.
Well, never had a crack switching tracks

 

[cc_rider]

Lots of poorly designed DACs out there that do this when incoming bitrate changes. I highly recommend an RME DAC.

 

[effortless]

The update did not improve the issue for me: Wiim Pro firmware 4.8.513047
iOS App 2.4.3 „Add sample rate switch latency to prevent the pop noise on the certain DACs when the optical signal switches on/off quickly“

Still high-frequency crackling when switching tracks or moving within a track. I filed another feedback ticket to wiim.

The dac‘s sampling rate led‘s flicker while the distortion is audible (even when switching tracks from 44/16 to 44/16, or any other rate).

While the crackling is more prominent when the sampling rate is changing, it also occurs when it doesn’t.

My issue is seemingly unrelated to buffering/latency, as the update should have fixed this.

Maybe the wiim is not sending anything on pause, causing the dac to resynchronize every time, and/or is sending again too early. I don‘t know.

The problem described in https://wiim.community.forum/threads/popping-clicking-when-switching-tracks.181/post-9045 is probably identical.

 

[Smartplug]

Hi @effortless
I have a Pro connected via COAX to Topping D50s and this last to my HiFi.
Well, i have and use Qobuz, but i have never experienced your cracling problems.
I can go back and forth through tracks with no probs.
I listen to Qobuz via BubbleUPnP on Android and via Mconnect on IOS.
I have choosen these two Apps because i can obtain the max. 24/192 and Gapeless Music.
Well, never had a crack switching tracks

It will be nice if mconnect support wider music services aside from tidal and qoboz.

 

[onlyoneme]

The update did not improve the issue for me: Wiim Pro firmware 4.8.513047
iOS App 2.4.3 „Add sample rate switch latency to prevent the pop noise on the certain DACs when the optical signal switches on/off quickly“

Still high-frequency crackling when switching tracks or moving within a track. I filed another feedback ticket to wiim.

The dac‘s sampling rate led‘s flicker while the distortion is audible (even when switching tracks from 44/16 to 44/16, or any other rate).

While the crackling is more prominent when the sampling rate is changing, it also occurs when it doesn’t.

My issue is seemingly unrelated to buffering/latency, as the update should have fixed this.

Maybe the wiim is not sending anything on pause, causing the dac to resynchronize every time, and/or is sending again too early. I don‘t know.

The problem described in https://wiim.community.forum/threads/popping-clicking-when-switching-tracks.181/post-9045 is probably identical.

LED still flickers because nothing has changed here - port switches off/on during manual skipping tracks almost all the time regardless of the sample rate change. Spotify and Tidal Connect were exceptions in my tests. Maybe a 1s max delay is not enough for some DACs. Or the delay is applied only when sample rate changes which is not enough.

 

[Maurizio]

It will be nice if mconnect support wider music services aside from tidal and qoboz.

I agree with you. I wish, for example, that there was AMU

 

[effortless]

solved!

Good news: I am now on 4.8.514545 and the nerve-racking crackling noise when switching tracks is gone.

It is still there when wakeup by playing a paused track from standby though, but I can accept that.

There is a faint short pop only when sampling rate actually changes, but that is a non-issue compared to the former crackling.

Setup: 4.8.514545 Wiim Pro with WHA 2.4.3, no latency in audio out, fixed volume, COAX out, DAC: Corda Daccord, Streaming Qobuz via WHA

 

[onlyoneme]

solved!

Good news: I am now on 4.8.514545 and the nerve-racking crackling noise when switching tracks is gone.

It is still there when wakeup by playing a paused track from standby though, but I can accept that.

There is a faint short pop only when sampling rate actually changes, but that is a non-issue compared to the former crackling.

Setup: 4.8.514545 Wiim Pro with WHA 2.4.3, no latency in audio out, fixed volume, COAX out, DAC: Corda Daccord, Streaming Qobuz via WHA

It's a beta release or an official one?

 

[effortless]

Might be. Dated 230421. Today there was a rocket on startup, but I found no release note (whatever that means). I see no indicator for a beta in the device info. I however shared my MAC address with them in my related tickets last weeks, but received no mention that I am whitelisted for betas. Last time I thought I got a beta everyone already had it.

 

[Brantome]

No update here either, nor is there generally any indication you’re running a beta. Perhaps they did whitelist you in the past, although I’m sure I’ve been stuck on beta firmware while others got a later public release. Guess we’ll give it a few days and see if that’s rolled out to others.

 

[onlyoneme]

Might be. Dated 230421. Today there was a rocket on startup, but I found no release note (whatever that means). I see no indicator for a beta in the device info. I however shared my MAC address with them in my related tickets last weeks, but received no mention that I am whitelisted for betas. Last time I thought I got a beta everyone already had it.

What about your DAC's LED flickering? Any change in the behavior?

 

[effortless]

yes. The sampling rate indicator LED on my Dac do not flicker anymore when track A has the same rate as track B. Which means that I can flip through an album without pain, which is a big improvement.

If it switches eg from 96 kHz to 44 kHz, the 192 LED is shortly ticked, but I hear no distortion (sometimes a faint pop).

It flickers heavily and crackles when wakeup from standby playing a paused track that has any other than 192kHz (but I have set a standby 30sec only for testing).

 

[onlyoneme]

yes. The sampling rate indicator LED on my Dac do not flicker anymore when track A has the same rate as track B. Which means that I can flip through an album without pain, which is a big improvement.

If it switches eg from 96 kHz to 44 kHz, the 192 LED is shortly ticked, but I hear no distortion (sometimes a faint pop).

It flickers heavily and crackles when wakeup from standby playing a paused track that has any other than 192kHz (but I have set a standby 30sec only for testing).

Great news if they really abandoned unnecessary switching.

 

[WiiM Support]

solved!

Good news: I am now on 4.8.514545 and the nerve-racking crackling noise when switching tracks is gone.

It is still there when wakeup by playing a paused track from standby though, but I can accept that.

There is a faint short pop only when sampling rate actually changes, but that is a non-issue compared to the former crackling.

Setup: 4.8.514545 Wiim Pro with WHA 2.4.3, no latency in audio out, fixed volume, COAX out, DAC: Corda Daccord, Streaming Qobuz via WHA

Hi effortless,

Thanks for helping us test this. Happy to know it works for your DAC. The cause of the pop noise issue is some DACs are very sensitive to the off/on of the SPDIF signal. The fix is we won't shut off the SPDIF signal when there's no change in the sample rate or bit depth. Whenever there's a change in audio resolution, we'll quickly reset the SPDIF (there is a gap of OFF/ON within 1 ms).

This is a separate issue regarding the pop noise from playing a paused track. Our team will fix it after we fix the pop noise from switching tracks. Thank you!