Sound quality when using EQ or Volume Control

[ratty]

Thanks. So if the largest was say +5db at 100hz, then cut volume by 5db?

So would it make a difference if you had a 5db boost at 100hz + a 4db boost at 2khz? Still just cut by 5db, or a cumulative 9db?

Cheers.

Adjust the volume by the largest individual EQ boost, so in your example it would be 5dB.

 

[Guest1]

My way to this things is my very, very long experience on this field. One of the very few "simple, tried and trusted" methods I rely on in this hobby. So why not find your point which suits you best by your own "research". For me it is part of the fun. If you want to have a ready supper served by others it is of course ok.
Beside that, because the question popped up a few posts above, clipping is surely no hardware destroying issue today. My amp for example has for emergency a very, very quick protection circuit which survived every party till today. And a beautiful first yellow then red light as warning.

 

[Brantome]

If I remember, and understood correctly, it’s been suggested to leave fixed volume at 100% but use the volume limiter (which has a multiplicative effect) at 5% reduction per 3dB you wish , so for 5dB headroom set the volume limit down towards 92%.

 

[ratty]

So that's what it's for.

 

[onlyoneme]

Thanks. So if the largest was say +5db at 100hz, then cut volume by 5db?

So would it make a difference if you had a 5db boost at 100hz + a 4db boost at 2khz? Still just cut by 5db, or a cumulative 9db?

Cheers.

All depends on filters setup in PEQ. Some applications like Equalizer APO can estimate the required gain based on the defined PEQ config.

 

[onlyoneme]

All depends on filters setup in PEQ. Some applications like Equalizer APO can estimate the required gain based on the defined PEQ config.

BTW there is also a question about DSP processing headroom, like how will the case of 2 bands with the same setup but different gains like +20dB and -20dB be handled.

 

[KCS]

According to this thread, if I use EQ to boost +x dB, I need to turn volume down by x dB to avoid clipping. The volume adjustment is in %. If the unit is voltage, setting to 50% reduce voltage to 1/2, and power or sound pressure to 1/4 or -6dB. Is this correct?

 

[KCS]

Just saw another thread that said every 5% is 3dB. So if I set volume to 50%, it is -30 dB. This seems to be correct according to the volume setting of my Oppo. Does anyone know if this is in Wiim document somewhere?

 

[onlyoneme]

Just saw another thread that said every 5% is 3dB. So if I set volume to 50%, it is -30 dB. This seems to be correct according to the volume setting of my Oppo. Does anyone know if this is in Wiim document somewhere?

It's valid for the volume limiter setting, not for the volume level setting.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

It’s a shame this can’t do done on the PEQ page itself.

 

[steadyshot]

Does 96 volume limit and fixed volume and 0,8v (0.784vrms measured by @onlyoneme ) equate to around 0.75vrms?

 

[harkpabst]

Using (positive gain) EQ does not mean that clipping is unavoidably there, to be precise. It "just" introduces the risk of it happening.

 

[KCS]

Does 96 volume limit and fixed volume and 0,8v (0.784vrms measured by @onlyoneme ) equate to around 0.75vrms?

Setting the volume limit to 95% is supposed to reduce sound pressure by 3dB or half the power. Voltage will be reduced by square root of 0.5, or 0.707. Assuming 0.8V is rms, output limit will be 0.8 V rms x 0.707, or 0.5656 V rms.

If it is linear, 96% is -2.4dB, and voltage limit will be 0.606 V rms.

Not sure how to measure this. You will have to feed Wiim with a digital signal that puts out a full scale voltage.

When I set volume limit to 50%, I have to increase volume on my Oppo by 30dB to get about the same loudness.

 

[KCS]

Using (positive gain) EQ does not mean that clipping is unavoidably there, to be precise. It "just" introduces the risk of it happening.

Someone with more knowledge please help. I think there are two parts. One is the headroom of the DAC output in the analog domain. If full scale voltage is the clipping limit, anything over full scale will clip. The other is the headroom in the digital domain. By definition, full scale is the maximum volume. Does that mean if music volume hits full scale and we EQ a boost, it still puts out full scale, meaning clipping?

 

[steadyshot]

I want to achieve a perfect voltage match to around 0.75vrms and I am wondering what should be the combination of voltage output on WiiM side and digital volume setting.

I think based on a formula I found if i set 1vrms and 96% volume given that each step is -0.6db I can achieve this . But since there is no linearity between voltage and volume level, can someone with a voltmeter test this on Wiim pro plus ? The optimal would be the least volume decrease

 

[harkpabst]

Someone with more knowledge please help. I think there are two parts. One is the headroom of the DAC output in the analog domain. If full scale voltage is the clipping limit, anything over full scale will clip.

Not sure what kind of "headroom" a DAC should offer. Digital FS (0 dB) is the upper limit, indeed.

The other is the headroom in the digital domain. By definition, full scale is the maximum volume. Does that mean if music volume hits full scale and we EQ a boost, it still puts out full scale, meaning clipping?

Well, yes, but there is one thing we didn't talk about, yet. Volume control.

Clipping can and will occur whenever 0 dB FS is violated. So much is true.

 

[KCS]

Not sure what kind of "headroom" a DAC should offer. Digital FS (0 dB) is the upper limit, indeed.

A DAC probably have some headroom. Say it tries to put out a square wave. It probably is not going to be a perfect square. There will be some overshoot. Not sure which is worse. Clipping the overshoot or allowing the overshoot

Well, yes, but there is one thing we didn't talk about, yet. Volume control.

Clipping can and will occur whenever 0 dB FS is violated. So much is true.

My Wiim is set to fixed volume output. Only the volume limiter can prevent clipping. Guess if I boost 3dB, I need to set volume limiter to 95%.

 

[KCS]

I want to achieve a perfect voltage match to around 0.75vrms and I am wondering what should be the combination of voltage output on WiiM side and digital volume setting.

I think based on a formula I found if i set 1vrms and 96% volume given that each step is -0.6db I can achieve this . But since there is no linearity between voltage and volume level, can someone with a voltmeter test this on Wiim pro plus ? The optimal would be the least volume decrease

I am curious. What is the reason for matching 0.75Vrms? By the way, this is the voltage when putting out full scale signal. Normal music will not be close to it.

Wiim has two volume controls. One is using the up/down button, which is disable if you set it to fixed volume output. The other is the volume limiter in %. According to this forum, every 5% is 3dB. So it you set it to 95%, it is -3dB and voltage is reduced by a factor 0.707. If you set it to 90%, it is -6dB and voltage is reduced to half.

 

[steadyshot]

I am curious. What is the reason for matching 0.75Vrms? By the way, this is the voltage when putting out full scale signal. Normal music will not be close to it.

Wiim has two volume controls. One is using the up/down button, which is disable if you set it to fixed volume output. The other is the volume limiter in %. According to this forum, every 5% is 3dB. So it you set it to 95%, it is -3dB and voltage is reduced by a factor 0.707. If you set it to 90%, it is -6dB and voltage is reduced to half.

I saw a measurement that at 0.8 v output at 100% volume, voltage is 0.784vrms

Taking that into consideration that 100% volume is 0.784vrms and knowing that each 1% volume change on volume limit (while having the volume fixed) represents 0.6 db I have asked gemini advanced and got the below:



The reason is compatibility in gain match with my amp high sensitivity setting . In general if you match input sensitivity with incoming voltage you get better synergy and sonic benefits.

Amp side:
High sensitivity input setting: around 0.75vrms
Mid: around 1.5vrms
High: around 3vrms

However if anyone has a multimeter it would be more accurate than this estimate.

Matching the output voltage of a DAC to the input sensitivity of your amplifier helps optimize your system's performance in several key ways:

Signal-to-Noise-Ratio (SNR):
Maximizing SNR: Matching output and input levels ensures the best possible signal-to-noise ratio. The DAC's signal will be strong relative to the inherent noise floor of your amplifier, leading to cleaner, more dynamic sound.
Avoiding Noise: If the DAC's output is too low, you'll need to crank the volume on your amp, potentially amplifying background noise along with the music.
Preventing Distortion (Clipping):
Headroom: If the DAC's output is too high for the amp's input sensitivity, you risk clipping. This means the tops and bottoms of audio waveforms get cut off, creating harsh distortion. Proper matching gives you more headroom to work with.
Clean Volume Changes: Properly matched levels give you finer control over volume changes. Too low a DAC output could mean big jumps between volume settings because you ride the upper end of the volume pot.
Utilizing the Volume Control:
Optimal Range: Correct matching lets you use a broader range of the volume knob on your amplifier. This typically aligns with the amp's most linear and best-sounding performance.
Avoiding Extremes: Using the volume knob at its very lowest settings can introduce noise; at extremely high volumes, you can stress and potentially damage components.

 

[KCS]

I assume you are using the volume control of your preamp and integrated amp. In this case it makes sense to have the maximum voltage level from the Wiim DAC output.

The down side is you are giving up bit perfect. Maybe want set you amp to 1.5V sensitivity. Set Wiim at 1V 100% to see which way sounds better.