Sub settings?

landwomble

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I've got my amp connected to KEF Q150 speakers with rear ports about 8 inches from my wall. Just bought a used Tannoy TS10 active sub.
I've connected it to the WiiM amp sub out, set the HP filter on the sub to highest setting and sub to full range, then turned on sub with a crossover at 100hz in the WiiM app. Decent starting point for music and films?
Any suggestions on how to best tweak much appreciated.
 
Not used that particular sub but I would have thought HP filter is purely for a pass-thru feature it has (line-out). As experiment (as I'm not the world expert) I would suggest you switch off LFE mode on the sub, set phase to 0 and gain to what seems "reasonable" and then use the WiiM amp sub settings to tune it based on what your ears tell you. Much easier to fiddle/tune in WiiM app rather than on your knees at a sub.
 
... I would suggest you switch off LFE mode on the sub ...
Why would you suggest this? According to the manual:

"... LFE MODE switch to ON. This will bypass the unit's internal crossover, with this function now provided for within the AV processor. The XOVER FREQ Control will no longer be functional."

That's exactly what you want with the WiiM Amp. It will take care of the filtering just like an AVR would in a HT setup.
 
Why would you suggest this? According to the manual:

"... LFE MODE switch to ON. This will bypass the unit's internal crossover, with this function now provided for within the AV processor. The XOVER FREQ Control will no longer be functional."

That's exactly what you want with the WiiM Amp. It will take care of the filtering just like an AVR would in a HT setup.
That's what I've done. LFE is on, so all the crossover work should be happening on the amp, not the sub. I've set crossover in WiiM app to around 90hz which seems best so far...
 
That's what I've done. LFE is on, so all the crossover work should be happening on the amp, not the sub. I've set crossover in WiiM app to around 90hz which seems best so far...
If it sounds better to you, it is better. :D

Generally speaking, the Q150 will benefit from a higher crossover point, especially if you're not just listening at moderate levels. The less the cones are moving, the less distortion. Also you don't have to worry about port noises or the positioning of the port if the speakers don't have to play down to their tuning frequency. With a high enough crossover frequency it might even be beneficial to insert the supplied foam plugs. But ...

... unfortunately, that might not be feasible. With a single mono subwoofer (and the WiiM Amp doesn't support stereo subs) I would not crossover any higher than ~125-150 Hz. This can work only, if you can place the sub exactly centered between your main speakers. If it sits somewhere between your speakers, I wouldn't go any higher than ~90-100 Hz. If you must position the sub anywhere outside the main speakers baseline, then 80 Hz or less are generally better. It's probably just too obvious, but the lower the crossover frequency, the less likely it is that the sub can be acoustically located as a separate speaker. But also, the benefits of offloading bass duties from the main speakers and the amp are diminishing.

After what you have done already, the typical setup procedure is to set the phase setting to 0⁰ (sub and amp) and the gain setting to ~50-60% on the sub and to 0 dB on the amp. It's best to only change the sub volume from the WiiM Home App from this point on, if you feel there is too much or too little bass.

Since the Tannoy offers continuous phase adjustment, you should try this out next. Whatever sounds louder is better here. If the result is too much bass from the sub, then reduce the level in the app afterwards. If you have a helper (or even an SPL meter) this job might be a lot easier. If you decide to try a different crossover frequency later on, it just might be necessary to re-evaluate the best phase setting on the sub, at least with bigger steps.

Now go ahead and listen to some music. The sub should not dominant in any way. It should just blend with the mains. Adjust the level until you are satisfied. If necessary, repeat with different crossover frequencies (and potentially level settings).

In addition, your sub also features this LF extension knob. As far as I understand it this is really intended to add more weight to the deepest registers as a special effect (not to make it sound more natural). The fully anticlockwise position is probably called "Music" for a reason. However, you are still free to experiment with this setting. But it should really be the final step.
 
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If it sounds better to you, it is better. :D

Generally speaking, the Q150 will benefit from a higher crossover point, especially if you're not just listening at moderate levels. The less the cones are moving, the less distortion. Also you don't have to worry about port noises or the positioning of the port if the speakers don't have to play down to their tuning frequency. With a high enough crossover frequency it might even be beneficial to insert the supplied foam plugs. But ...

... unfortunately, that might not be feasible. With a single mono subwoofer (and the WiiM Amp doesn't support stereo subs) I would not crossover any higher than ~125-150 Hz. This can work only, if you can place the sub exactly centered between your main speakers. If it sits somewhere between your speakers, I wouldn't go any higher than ~90-100 Hz. If you must position the sub anywhere outside the main speakers baseline, then 80 Hz or less are generally better. It's probably just too obvious, but the lower the crossover frequency, the less likely it is that the sub can be acoustically located as a separate speaker. But also, the benefits of offloading bass duties from the main speakers and the amp are diminishing.

After what you have done already, the typical setup procedure is to set the phase setting to 0⁰ (sub and amp) and the gain setting to ~50-60% on the sub and to 0 dB on the amp. It's best to only change the sub volume from the WiiM Home App from this point on, if you feel there is too much or too little bass.

Since the Tannoy offers continuous phase adjustment, you should try this out next. Whatever sounds louder is better here. If the result is too much bass from the sub, then reduce the level in the app afterwards. If you have a helper (or even an SPL meter) this job might be a lot easier. If you decide to try a different crossover frequency later on, it just might be necessary to re-evaluate the best phase setting on the sub, at least with bigger steps.

Now go ahead and listen to some music. The sub should not be dominant in any way. It should just blend with the mains. Adjust the level until you are satisfied. If necessary, repeat with different crossover frequencies.

In addition, your sub also features this LF extension knob. As far as I understand it this is really intended to add more weight to the deepest registers as a special effect (not to make it sound.more natural). The fully anticlockwise position is probably called "Music" for a reason. However, you are still free to experiment with this setting. But this should really be the final step.
Thank you! I think I've arrived at similar place by experimenting last night. Sub is not central. Appreciate heads up on lfe extension. Might crank that up for movies but otherwise turn it down.
Settled on 80hz crossover which seems to work best. I don't tend to liste
n at extreme volume so not too worried about taking bass load off speakers, more just getting a good balance. As always, what I I initially set was "ooh I can hear the sub thumping, great" Vs "this sounds natural and not overpowering hump at about 90hz"

Thanks for tip on phase adjustment knob, will play with that to get max output then play with gain in the WiiM app 👍
 
How do those KEF's sound? I like that conical arrangement but outside my budget (and my system is outside).

For me, I'm using some Monoprice Monolith BP5s bookshelf speakers and some old Yamaha powered sub. I'm XO at 150 and when I used REW, the frequency response was about as good as it's gonna get.

But, looking at the frequency responses of what you have, your XO point looks pretty good. Nice system.
 
How do those KEF's sound? I like that conical arrangement but outside my budget (and my system is outside).

For me, I'm using some Monoprice Monolith BP5s bookshelf speakers and some old Yamaha powered sub. I'm XO at 150 and when I used REW, the frequency response was about as good as it's gonna get.

But, looking at the frequency responses of what you have, your XO point looks pretty good. Nice system.
I'm a big fan of them. They don't seem the most sensitive speakers but the sound is excellent. I have a small treble boost on the higher frequencies in the WiiM EQ and at the bottom end but otherwise EQ is flat and they sound great. The treble boost is compensating for my ears, not the speakers!
 
I've have also bookshelf speakers.
Sub is not exactly in the centre of the 2 speakers
Crossover is set to 80 Hz..works fine in this setting.
 
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