The competition doesn't sleep

[Dude]

In my opinion, Yamaha is simply responding to changing demand and focusing on profitable categories. Broadly speaking, they're concentrating on premium audio and pro audio. However, they are releasing new soundbar products where demand is high. E.g., AVRs require significant development costs, and demand for them is shrinking.

Yes. I was not referring to high end or soundbars but to these smaller D amps and preamp streaming boxes as well as powered speakers. But we need to keep in mind, the companies that do that, historically, are not long for this planet. RIP Minolta, Kodak. (Still around but, just as brands in photography.) To name a few that were once really great and gave it up. I guess Akai and a few audio brands too (globally, I think in Japan/Asia, they still hold on.) Anyhow, Yamaha, where art thou?

 

[Dude]

I don’tt see how soundbars are premium audio. The same applies to streaming receivers. Those are at best middle class from a hifi perspective.
My first hifi stack was all Yamaha. And I like them. But now there‘s not a single product in their range that I would need, want or buy. I find it very sad. @Dude has described the situation very well.

You have to know the secret web site for the good stuff. https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/hifi_components/index.html

 

[Dude]

Yamaha still has an audio range, even a new series of fairly serious speakers... Perhaps the streaming market is too crowded and difficult... especially with players like Wiim Eversolo, etc.

They have it but I was point out more the “WiiM” size streamers and D amps. Yamaha once had a line! The WXC-50 streamer and WXA-50 amp. https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/wireless_streaming_amplifiers/wxc-50/index.html
These were very good. They just need to bloody compete!

 

[harkpabst]

Yamaha actually provides a very robust streaming environment through its MusicCast app and MusicCast devices and has had that for many years.

I don't want to argue, but I don't want to keep my personal experience to myself. 6 years ago I had bought the Yamaha CD-NT670D Network Radio CD player. And I hated it, mostly due to MusiCast.

I don't know how it has developed since, but almost 6 years ago I would call it close to unusable. YMMV.

 

[dtc]

I don't want to argue, but I don't want to keep my personal experience to myself. 6 years ago I had bought the Yamaha CD-NT670D Network Radio CD player. And I hated it, mostly due to MusiCast.

I don't know how it has developed since, but almost 6 years ago I would call it close to unusable. YMMV.

I have used MusicCast and I agree it is not as nice at the Wiim app, but I found it usable for routine use. I think people who use MusicCast do so from pretty routine streaming whereas Wiim users tend to delve more into the details. YMMV - agreed. I do believe that Yamaha is not pushing the envelopment on developing

 

[dominikz]

Let’s be honest, here—most people are just using terrible sounding AAC Bluetooth, accepting convenience over sound quality.

-Ed

This is my experience as well.

Most people I know (who aren't into audio) just use TV / laptop / BT speakers, and earbuds.

People who own soundbars, smart speakers, or over-ear headphones are seen as audio enthusiasts by most.

People who even know what a streamer does seem to be a very small minority among the general population.

This forum is not representative of the general population.

 

[EddNog]

This forum is not representative of the general population.

Of course not, we're freakin' elite, dammit!

-Ed

 

[Aquaman]

I don't want to argue, but I don't want to keep my personal experience to myself. 6 years ago I had bought the Yamaha CD-NT670D Network Radio CD player. And I hated it, mostly due to MusiCast.

I don't know how it has developed since, but almost 6 years ago I would call it close to unusable. YMMV.

Be it MusiCast, WiiM, BlueOS or any other software, how is one to know how well it works and what it does or not do prior to purchasing a piece of hardware?
None of the apps can be tested without a compatible device on one‘s own network.
There are no ‚specs‘ that would adequately describe the look, feel and functioning of a software.
This is a major shortcoming in the whole industry.

 

[cooky560]

Be it MusiCast, WiiM, BlueOS or any other software, how is one to know how well it works and what it does or not do prior to purchasing a piece of hardware?
None of the apps can be tested without a compatible device on one‘s own network.
There are no ‚specs‘ that would adequately describe the look, feel and functioning of a software.
This is a major shortcoming in the whole industry.

It really is time for a "demo" mode for the apps, before purchase, even if it's just a youtube video.
Companies making hardware a lot more expensive than the WiiM have far, far worse apps.

 

[Dude]

Do you think a major corporation like Yamaha could pull off the same low-margin, high-volume streaming model as WiiM, while also updating apps and firmware every month and releasing multiple new products each year?

However, since Linkplay has a proven track record of providing software to Yamaha, partnering with them in the streamer field would be intriguing.

Sure sure but, the thing is, they already are doing this with Musiccast on all the other stuff they still sell from basic to high end, from Yamaha to Aventage. Basically, the underlying architecture and app of all Yamaha audio is Musiccast (it even crosses over to musical instruments). All the companies have this. WiiM has its and actually was (is?) a supplier of some of that tech to, Yamaha, before it started its own line. Denon and its cadre of brands is Eos (wait, is that the name? I forget), plus many others. Most are based off of MS Airconnect (or whatever it is called) and subsequent versions and names. Some very high end brands no one here has heard of uses this for their systems.
Anyhow, it gets into the weeds a lot so, self research for anyone reading this to learn more. It will take you week to see what each maker uses and bases their entire system on. This would make a good Stereophile or Darko article.

I don't want to argue, but I don't want to keep my personal experience to myself. 6 years ago I had bought the Yamaha CD-NT670D Network Radio CD player. And I hated it, mostly due to MusiCast.

I don't know how it has developed since, but almost 6 years ago I would call it close to unusable. YMMV.

The first version was, beta and had issues. But it is pretty good now. Hey, it comes with new stuff so, it is what we have. They update it constantly with fixes for stability, etc. It is pretty good now. PLUS it is up to 24/192 to all devices and only goes down in quality as you add more and more. Which for a home, is just background music anyway. Yamaha did design that part right.

 

[slartibartfast]

Be it MusiCast, WiiM, BlueOS or any other software, how is one to know how well it works and what it does or not do prior to purchasing a piece of hardware?
None of the apps can be tested without a compatible device on one‘s own network.
There are no ‚specs‘ that would adequately describe the look, feel and functioning of a software.
This is a major shortcoming in the whole industry.

You can try out Lyrion by installing Squeezeplay as a software player on a PC.

 

[castalla]

It really is time for a "demo" mode for the apps, before purchase, even if it's just a youtube video.
Companies making hardware a lot more expensive than the WiiM have far, far worse apps.

More important is how quickly and effectively bugs are squished

 

[Aquaman]

You can try out Lyrion by installing Squeezeplay as a software player on a PC.

Yeah, Lyrion. But that wouldn‘t help me with buying the 95% of devices on the market which don‘t support that.

 

[Wiimer]

I've been a longtime fan of Yamaha AVRs. Unfortunately, MusicCast offers only the most basic functionality as a music streaming app. (So I never use it at all.)

Furthermore, it doesn't support Qobuz Connect. In these respects, it's clearly lagging behind..

WiiM has its and actually was (is?) a supplier of some of that tech to, Yamaha

Yes, I believe the Sound Bar Controller app is made by Linkplay. It's still available, but it only supports older sound bars.

 

[Dude]

Be it MusiCast, WiiM, BlueOS or any other software, how is one to know how well it works and what it does or not do prior to purchasing a piece of hardware?
None of the apps can be tested without a compatible device on one‘s own network.
There are no ‚specs‘ that would adequately describe the look, feel and functioning of a software.
This is a major shortcoming in the whole industry.

Well, you can buy it and try it. I did that with Amazon Echo Link streamer and Link amp. I returned both. (I am now totally out of Amazon since I was into it and spent a lot and then they killed most of the products I liked. Amazon is dead to me.)
Also, read reviews by actual audio experts and writers. People make fun of them but, if you use critical thinking and edit out any bias you detect, it can narrow it down. At this point, I have had bad luck with ChiFi brands breaking within a couple years (WiiM HQ is USA) — like SMSL. So I am now no longer interested in any of those. WiiM being an exception. For now. This is partly why I am frustrated with Japan hifi seemingly giving it up way too soon!

 

[canard]

Well, you can buy it and try it. I did that with Amazon Echo Link streamer and Link amp. I returned both. (I am now totally out of Amazon since I was into it and spent a lot and then they killed most of the products I liked. Amazon is dead to me.)
Also, read reviews by actual audio experts and writers. People make fun of them but, if you use critical thinking and edit out any bias you detect, it can narrow it down. At this point, I have had bad luck with ChiFi brands breaking within a couple years (WiiM HQ is USA) — like SMSL. So I am now no longer interested in any of those. WiiM being an exception. For now. This is partly why I am frustrated with Japan hifi seemingly giving it up way too soon!

If we consider that a forum can quickly become a sounding board for complaints about technical problems (there are bound to be some, despite everything)...
we can observe that Wiim, for the moment, seems to be doing rather well...
(These are products that were put on the market a bit early with some issues, even serious ones, in the first series we encountered... this doesn't seem to have been the case with the latest ones...)

 

[Aquaman]

Well, you can buy it and try it. I did that with Amazon Echo Link streamer and Link amp. I returned both. (I am now totally out of Amazon since I was into it and spent a lot and then they killed most of the products I liked. Amazon is dead to me.)
Also, read reviews by actual audio experts and writers. People make fun of them but, if you use critical thinking and edit out any bias you detect, it can narrow it down. At this point, I have had bad luck with ChiFi brands breaking within a couple years (WiiM HQ is USA) — like SMSL. So I am now no longer interested in any of those. WiiM being an exception. For now. This is partly why I am frustrated with Japan hifi seemingly giving it up way too soon!

You could try German suppliers. A couple of pages back I posted on the Sonoro streamer to come in Q3 2026.
There are actually quire a few German companies involved in the industry. Though they are not very well known and you really have to go looking for them. I wouldn‘t mind spending a bit more.
If I were to buy any of their stuff I‘d actually pay them a visit for a demo and have a check list in my pocket.

 

[Dude]

I've been a longtime fan of Yamaha AVRs. Unfortunately, MusicCast offers only the most basic functionality as a music streaming app. (So I never use it at all.)

Furthermore, it doesn't support Qobuz Connect. In these respects, it's clearly lagging behind..

- Qobuz Connect is less than a year old. It came out last year. At soonest, on its next lines of stuff in coming years.
- Not having Connect and access only via the hifi maker app, is true with almost all the brands. Brands, mostly higher end (more demanding customers), are just now adding Connects to newer models. But, that is part of the problem, what newer models?! Actually I BOUGHT a Pro Plus because I wanted to check out a 2 month trial of Qobuz on a Yamaha that, played it fine from the AVR but only from the Musiccast app. Again, that is a problem (too strong a word) with many brands, not just Yamaha (queue those about to reply to this with “Whatabout Acme and Smith and Jones components!?!” Like I said, most, not all.)
Darko (queue more hate) has said this many times. His super expensive stuff he tests, lacks (or lacked, it is changing) Connect (Tidal and Spotify for him). So he just (at first) plugged in the first Wiim! Which Wiim should thank him for as, it got WiiM on our radar as a cheap and excellent UI based streamer for any AVR, amp — new or old — that does not have Connect.
So if your Jones or Acme AVR or amp/preamp/streamer lacks the latest Connect for a service you use and like that has it, just pick up a Pro Plus, you will thank me. I still use Musiccast but mainly for convenience in volume control and preset switching and some Atmos rears (too hard to wire).
I will add one negative about Musiccast: the radio service, sounds great but is terrible in that you cannot add stations not on it. But this seems to have become a thing a few years ago. Apple Music removed this too. But I guess Apple got the message and added it back. Under File; Open stream URL… it is now back. But, functional on macOS Music only. Ugh.
Yamaha?! Users need that back please for some lossless streaming stations.

 

[Wiimer]

- Qobuz Connect is less than a year old. It came out last year. At soonest, on its next lines of stuff in coming years.
- Not having Connect and access only via the hifi maker app, is true with almost all the brands. Brands, mostly higher end (more demanding customers), are just now adding Connects to newer models. But, that is part of the problem, what newer models?! Actually I BOUGHT a Pro Plus because I wanted to check out a 2 month trial of Qobuz on a Yamaha that, played it fine from the AVR but only from the Musiccast app. Again, that is a problem (too strong a word) with many brands, not just Yamaha (queue those about to reply to this with “Whatabout Acme and Smith and Jones components!?!” Like I said, most, not all.)
Darko (queue more hate) has said this many times. His super expensive stuff he tests, lacks (or lacked, it is changing) Connect (Tidal and Spotify for him). So he just (at first) plugged in the first Wiim! Which Wiim should thank him for as, it got WiiM on our radar as a cheap and excellent UI based streamer for any AVR, amp — new or old — that does not have Connect.
So if your Jones or Acme AVR or amp/preamp/streamer lacks the latest Connect for a service you use and like that has it, just pick up a Pro Plus, you will thank me. I still use Musiccast but mainly for convenience in volume control and preset switching and some Atmos rears (too hard to wire).
I will add one negative about Musiccast: the radio service, sounds great but is terrible in that you cannot add stations not on it. But this seems to have become a thing a few years ago. Apple Music removed this too. But I guess Apple got the message and added it back. Under File; Open stream URL… it is now back. But, functional on macOS Music only. Ugh.
Yamaha?! Users need that back please for some lossless streaming stations.

Yeah,
Therefore, even if Yamaha releases a successor to the WXC-50, I can't see how it could compete on equal footing with streamers like the WiiM in terms of functionality (and likely sound quality as well).

 

[harkpabst]

Of course not, we're freakin' elite, dammit!

-Ed