Ultra and Amazon Music=no go

[Cal_Cobra]

New WiiM customer here. I really, really want to like, even love, the WiiM Ultra, but so far, it's sole purpose in life as a music streamer has been anything but a positive experience.

The issue I'm having is around Amazon Music Unlimited playback. Unfortunately it frequently and randomly just stops playing, although the screen and WiiM Home app show it's still playing (not paused). Sometimes hitting pause/play may kick off the stream again, most times not, it just sits in limbo. Other times, when you press play, it never plays.

One would naturally suspect this to be a network related issue, and it may well be that the Ultra has a buggy network stack. Given the nature of their WiFi supplicant, I wouldn't be surprised if the network stack has some bug (seriously I have to hold the PLAY button and cycle thru the device setup just to change a SSID? If this is the only way, this in itself is ridiculous, heck 20 year old network supplicants are better than this!). I have a WiFi6 network at home, and no other device has experienced playback issues with Amazon Music (or anything else for that matter). When the music gets stuck, checking the network settings shows a WiFi signal from 'okay' to 'weak.' It doesn't matter if I play Amazon Music directly from within the WiiM Home app, or play it directly from the Amazon Music app on the iPhone, it still randomly stops playing. Interestingly if I use the Amazon Music app on the iPhone and stream it to a different device, IT NEVER FREEZES.

I'm honestly thinking about returning my new WiiM Ultra if I can't get this Amazon Music playback issue resolved. Maybe I have a defective unit, it has a network stack bug, or the Ultra just wasn't ready to be released. Given that Amazon Music is almost unusable, I'd be happy to use Apple Music instead, yet it's not even supported. One of the largest music streaming services on the planet, and it's not support on what's supposed to be a premium music streamer, that's almost inconceivable! Yes I know it's "coming" and we've seen mention that AirPlay2 won't be supported, so no idea when and what is actually "coming" I did finally open a support ticket thru the WiiM Home app. They initially said it looked like a network issue, but escalated it to engineering, so we'll see what they come back with. Hopefully they can solve the issue, it doesn't make sense that the only device here having an issue playing back Amazon Music is the newly released WiiM Ultra.

 

[Brantome]

New WiiM customer here. I really, really want to like, even love, the WiiM Ultra, but so far, it's sole purpose in life as a music streamer has been anything but a positive experience.

The issue I'm having is around Amazon Music Unlimited playback. Unfortunately it frequently and randomly just stops playing, although the screen and WiiM Home app show it's still playing (not paused). Sometimes hitting pause/play may kick off the stream again, most times not, it just sits in limbo. Other times, when you press play, it simply never plays.

One would naturally suspect this is to be a network related issue, and it may well be that the Ultra has a buggy network stack. Given the nature of their WiFi supplicant, I wouldn't be surprised if the network stack has some bug (seriously I have to hold the PLAY button and cycle thru the device setup just to change a SSID? If this is the only way, this in itself is ridiculous, heck 20 year old network supplicants are better than this!). I have a WiFi6 network at home, and no other device has experienced playback issues with Amazon Music (or anything else for that matter). When the music gets stuck, checking the network settings shows a WiFi signal from 'okay' to 'weak.' It does't matter if I play Amazon Music directly from within the WiiM Home app, or play it directly from the Amazon Music app on the iPhone, it still randomly stops playing. Interestingly if I use the Amazon Music app on the iPhone and stream it to a different device, IT NEVER FREEZES.

A WiFi signal of “okay” to “weak” would suggest a network issue - can you move the Ultra closer to your router or use a cabled Ethernet connection? My WiFi on my Ultra shows as “very good” with an RSSI of -58 and I have no issues at all with any streaming service.

I'm honestly thinking about returning my new WiiM Ultra if I can't get this Amazon Music playback issue resolved. Maybe I have a defective unit, it has a network stack bug,

You might well have a defective unit and I would have expected WiiM to identify that from your device logs when you submitted a ticket thru the WiiM app. If that’s the case, they’ll facilitate a replacement. If it’s a network stack bug, I’m equally confident they’ll provide a fix.

or the Ultra just wasn't ready to be released.

Rather harsh and unfounded statement imho..

Given that Amazon Music is almost unusable, I'd be happy to use Apple Music instead, yet it's not even supported. One of the largest music streaming services on the planet, and it's not support on what's supposed to be a premium music streamer, that's almost inconceivable!
Yes I know it's "coming"

Don’t know what gave you that idea. Apple Music is very locked down and generally not available in streamers due to Apple Music not making an a third party API available other than to one or two suppliers like Sonos and I think Tesla, and even then, it still only supports lossy aac playback. The handful of streamers that do support Apple Music like Eversolo and Fiio for example do so because they’re running the official Apple Music app on a modded version of Android.

and we've seen mention that AirPlay2 won't be supported, so no idea when and what is actually "coming"

I’d refer you to what WiiM have said re Airplay, especially the second sentence: “Airplay certification is still pending, and while we don't have a definitive timeline, we chose not to delay the launch of the WiiM Ultra. If you primarily use Airplay to stream music, we recommend waiting until it's certified or looking at other WiiM products.” Basically, if airplay is important to you, then you should have delayed your Ultra purchase until after it was certified.

I did finally open a support ticket thru the WiiM Home app,

They initially said it looked like a network issue, but escalated it to engineering, so we'll see what they come back with. Hopefully they can solve the issue, it doesn't make sense that the only device here having an issue playing back Amazon Music is the newly released WiiM Ultra.

Again, my Ultra plays Amazon Music without any issue, so rather than saying the newly released Ultra is the only device that has an issue, perhaps it’s more accurate to say your Ultra on your network has issues. From what you have said above, it does sound more of a network/wifi issue. Perhaps posting a screenshot from the WiiM Home app of your Ultra’s network settings might allow other members to suggest ways of improving its performance.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

A WiFi signal of “okay” to “weak” would suggest a network issue - can you move the Ultra closer to your router or use a cabled Ethernet connection? My WiFi on my Ultra shows as “very good” with an RSSI of -58 and I have no issues at all with any streaming service.

It may well be a WiFi issue on the Ultra as no other WiFi devices have issues in the same location and also show better signal strength in the exact same location as the Ultra (which is 20 feet from the WAP). It's a shame that the WiFi antenna is internal, as an external antenna would give some options to improve signal receiver strength with a higher gain antenna for example. I can move the Ultra to my office for a hard Ethernet connection to determine if it's WiFi related.

You might well have a defective unit and I would have expected WiiM to identify that from your device logs when you submitted a ticket thru the WiiM app. If that’s the case, they’ll facilitate a replacement. If it’s a network stack bug, I’m equally confident they’ll provide a fix.

Let's see what they come back with.

Rather harsh and unfounded statement imho..

You're probably right, just a bit frustrated.

Don’t know what gave you that idea. Apple Music is very locked down and generally not available in streamers due to Apple Music not making an a third party API available other than to one or two suppliers like Sonos and I think Tesla, and even then, it still only supports lossy aac playback. The handful of streamers that do support Apple Music like Eversolo and Fiio for example do so because they’re running the official Apple Music app on a modded version of Android.

My bad, I assumed (I know, I shouldn't) that it wasn't that big of a deal. I have the Apple Music app on my Fire TV Cube media streamer for example, that can be had as low as $99 (on sale), so it would seem logical that an audio only streamer that's almost 3X the cost could also support it.

Again, my Ultra plays Amazon Music without any issue, so rather than saying the newly released Ultra is the only device that has an issue, perhaps it’s more accurate to say your Ultra on your network has issues. From what you have said above, it does sound more of a network/wifi issue. Perhaps posting a screenshot from the WiiM Home app of your Ultra’s network settings might allow other members to suggest ways of improving its performance.

That's fair. I've tried every permutation of network settings, 5Ghz only on/off, roaming on/off, moved it to different SSIDs on both 2.4/5Ghz, etc. The network supplicant is pretty simple, not much you can change on the WiiM Home app unless there's another way? Where I have the Ultra sitting now is all of 15 feet from the WAP, it shows a RSSI of -65, WiFi Strength shows "Very Good" and it just stopped, and started. Happy to post any settings if it would help.

EDIT: Did it again with -63 RSSI, which is a solid signal.

 

[Brantome]

My bad, I assumed (I know, I shouldn't) that it wasn't that big of a deal. I have the Apple Music app on my Fire TV Cube media streamer for example, that can be had as low as $99 (on sale), so it would seem logical that an audio only streamer that's almost 3X the cost could also support it.

The Fire TV Cube is Android based so supports (some) Android apps - WiiM devices used a bespoke version of Tina Linux and aren’t a general app platform.

That's fair. I've tried every permutation of network settings, 5Ghz only on/off, roaming on/off, moved it to different SSIDs on both 2.4/5Ghz, etc. The network supplicant is pretty simple, not much you can change on the WiiM Home app unless there's another way? Where I have the Ultra sitting now is all of 15 feet from the WAP, it shows a RSSI of -65, WiFi Strength shows "Very Good" and it just stopped, and started. Happy to post any settings if it would help.

EDIT: Did it again with -63 RSSI, which is a solid signal.

Fair enough - is that on 5gHz or 2.4gHz, and what resolution are the tracks you’re playing?

I ask as I had a similar experience with Qobuz on a new WiiM device this morning which I had inadvertently set up on my 2.4gHz network as that’s what the WiiM app on my phone was using. When trying to play a 24/192 track, it had issues very similar to what you describe - almost immediately dropping out and getting no further than ten seconds or so before it would stop and start again. Changing to a 5gHz band resolved that and I’ve been playing a mixture of tracks of all resolutions all morning.

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

So one option, if you already have a Cube, is to buy an HDMI audio stripper.

These have HDMI in and out (pass through), but strip the audio and output it over optical, which you can send to the Ultra.

They’re only about £35. That’s a small extra expense, but you have the advantage of using the Amazon app on whatever size screen you like.

https://amzn.eu/d/06qpcGND

 

[Brantome]

Not bit perfect even assuming the HDMI stripper converts up to 24/192 on its optical out, and the Fire TV Amazon Music app interface is, well, less optimal than the mobile/tablet version...

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Not bit perfect even assuming the HDMI stripper converts up to 24/192 on its optical out, and the Fire TV Amazon Music app interface is, well, less optimal than the mobile/tablet version...

I agree about the app.

But it seems to work well.

Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Amazon Basics 4K HDMI extractor. Member kindly purchased and drop shipped it to me. It normally costs $22.89 but was on sale for just $5!!! The case is the standard metal one for these kinds of adapters. Power is provided with a supplied USB-A...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Cal_Cobra]

Received this reply from WiiM support (Will say that I'm impressed with their responsiveness ):

Thank you for your response.

Our engineers have investigated the issue and discovered that the WiiM Ultra occasionally experiences timeouts when attempting to communicate with the Amazon Cloud, affecting the ability to download audio from the Amazon Music Server.

We are working to identify and resolve the root cause of this connection issue. We appreciate your patience and understanding.

In the meantime, please refer to this article on how to cast Amazon Music from your Amazon Music app to the WiiM Ultra. Let us know if the issue persists after trying this method.

Best Regards,
WiiM Support

It does the same if I cast from the Amazon Music App, so I'll update the ticket with that data point. I really hope they can resolve this, aside from this issue (which is a show stopper for me), I do really like the Ultra, unfortunately it's relegated to my test environment until fixed.

 

[Smartplug]

New WiiM customer here. I really, really want to like, even love, the WiiM Ultra, but so far, it's sole purpose in life as a music streamer has been anything but a positive experience.

The issue I'm having is around Amazon Music Unlimited playback. Unfortunately it frequently and randomly just stops playing, although the screen and WiiM Home app show it's still playing (not paused). Sometimes hitting pause/play may kick off the stream again, most times not, it just sits in limbo. Other times, when you press play, it never plays.

One would naturally suspect this to be a network related issue, and it may well be that the Ultra has a buggy network stack. Given the nature of their WiFi supplicant, I wouldn't be surprised if the network stack has some bug (seriously I have to hold the PLAY button and cycle thru the device setup just to change a SSID? If this is the only way, this in itself is ridiculous, heck 20 year old network supplicants are better than this!). I have a WiFi6 network at home, and no other device has experienced playback issues with Amazon Music (or anything else for that matter). When the music gets stuck, checking the network settings shows a WiFi signal from 'okay' to 'weak.' It doesn't matter if I play Amazon Music directly from within the WiiM Home app, or play it directly from the Amazon Music app on the iPhone, it still randomly stops playing. Interestingly if I use the Amazon Music app on the iPhone and stream it to a different device, IT NEVER FREEZES.

I'm honestly thinking about returning my new WiiM Ultra if I can't get this Amazon Music playback issue resolved. Maybe I have a defective unit, it has a network stack bug, or the Ultra just wasn't ready to be released. Given that Amazon Music is almost unusable, I'd be happy to use Apple Music instead, yet it's not even supported. One of the largest music streaming services on the planet, and it's not support on what's supposed to be a premium music streamer, that's almost inconceivable! Yes I know it's "coming" and we've seen mention that AirPlay2 won't be supported, so no idea when and what is actually "coming" I did finally open a support ticket thru the WiiM Home app. They initially said it looked like a network issue, but escalated it to engineering, so we'll see what they come back with. Hopefully they can solve the issue, it doesn't make sense that the only device here having an issue playing back Amazon Music is the newly released WiiM Ultra.

I’m nit picking when it comes to WiFi. Is your router capable changing channel? If so, use wifiman on android and check channel which 5ghz that’s not being use. Auto channel sucks ball and often pick congested. It can cause low Speedtest and worst latency. Set your channel that your only one using it even mean you use dfs. Once you do this, you will notice how responsive your WiFi.

 

[Brantome]

Received this reply from WiiM support (Will say that I'm impressed with their responsiveness ):



It does the same if I cast from the Amazon Music App, so I'll update the ticket with that data point. I really hope they can resolve this, aside from this issue (which is a show stopper for me), I do really like the Ultra, unfortunately it's relegated to my test environment until fixed.

It’s perhaps router or network specific as you currently seem to be in a minority experiencing this, but at least WiiM seem to be on the case

 

[Cal_Cobra]

I’m nit picking when it comes to WiFi. Is your router capable changing channel? If so, use wifiman on android and check channel which 5ghz that’s not being use. Auto channel sucks ball and often pick congested. It can cause low Speedtest and worst latency. Set your channel that your only one using it even mean you use dfs. Once you do this, you will notice how responsive your WiFi.

Yeah auto channel can be problematic. I have a WiFI analyzer (coincidentally installed on my Fire TV Cube and have my WiFi setup on the best channels for 2.4 and 5Ghz. I spent five years working in commercial/enterprise WiFi, so I'm used to troubleshooting things like high channel utilization and other RF oddities, but none of that was going on here (swap the WiiM for another WiFi client and it performs flawlessly).

It's looking like this is a code issue on the Ultra with Amazon's music cloud service. Great that support has identified the root cause, hopefully it's an easy fix

 

[Cal_Cobra]

It’s perhaps router or network specific as you currently seem to be in a minority experiencing this, but at least WiiM seem to be on the case

I've done my fair share of TAC/support, so I wouldn't discount anything until there's a RCA, but let's see what WiiM support comes back with.

Given I can use the Amazon Music app from my iPhone and if it's cast to anything but the Ultra, it works fine, I can only conclude one thing.

 

[Smartplug]

Yeah auto channel can be problematic. I have a WiFI analyzer (coincidentally installed on my Fire TV Cube and have my WiFi setup on the best channels for 2.4 and 5Ghz. I spent five years working in commercial/enterprise WiFi, so I'm used to troubleshooting things like high channel utilization and other RF oddities, but none of that was going on here (swap the WiiM for another WiFi client and it performs flawlessly).

It's looking like this is a code issue on the Ultra with Amazon's music cloud service. Great that support has identified the root cause, hopefully it's an easy fix

Many people buy mesh network but the problem on those that you can’t change channel. It does it automatically much like auto channel. When you run Speedtest only getting low speed and latency is bad. I would stick on traditional router that changing channel manually is a must. Since I live where my next next door neighbor are very far, I have no problem on interference from other ap. I don’t like living on urban where people are in close proximity. I live where I only hear nature.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

Many people buy mesh network but the problem on those that you can’t change channel. It does it automatically much like auto channel. When you run Speedtest only getting low speed and latency is bad. I would stick on traditional router that changing channel manually is a must. Since I live where my next next door neighbor are very far, I have no problem on interference from other ap. I don’t like living on urban where people are in close proximity. I live where I only hear nature.

My WiFi setup is about as plain jane they come - single dual band WiFi6 WAP dead center in my home, the Ultra is ~15 feet away. I can change just about anything on the WAP, it's separate from my firewall.

I have a TP-Link wireless WiFi Ethernet extender that I picked up for my Oppo DVD player as not only was it infinitely faster, but significantly less expensive as well than the Oppo factory WiFi dongle. I think the old factory WiFi dongle only 54Mbps 802.11 G, yet it has an Ethernet port and works great. Maybe for schitts and grins I'll try it on the Ultra's Ethernet port.

 

[Longfellow78]

It's not a wifi issue. I have mine plugged in my ethernet and it's absolutely awful. Very slow to change songs, the alex voice control doesn't work at all. You can't play USB tracks from the touch screen (one of the main reason's I bought it). I am very angry seeing as I sold my wiim pro literally the same day this arrived. I stupidly assumed it would have more functionality rather than less.

OH AND FOR GOD'S SAKE WHY ASK FOR A CONFIRMATION WHEN WE WANT TO CHANGE SOURCE! YES I WANT TO WHY DID I GO TO THEM MENU AND PUSH THE BUTTON?!

 

[Longfellow78]

New WiiM customer here. I really, really want to like, even love, the WiiM Ultra, but so far, it's sole purpose in life as a music streamer has been anything but a positive experience.

The issue I'm having is around Amazon Music Unlimited playback. Unfortunately it frequently and randomly just stops playing, although the screen and WiiM Home app show it's still playing (not paused). Sometimes hitting pause/play may kick off the stream again, most times not, it just sits in limbo. Other times, when you press play, it never plays.

One would naturally suspect this to be a network related issue, and it may well be that the Ultra has a buggy network stack. Given the nature of their WiFi supplicant, I wouldn't be surprised if the network stack has some bug (seriously I have to hold the PLAY button and cycle thru the device setup just to change a SSID? If this is the only way, this in itself is ridiculous, heck 20 year old network supplicants are better than this!). I have a WiFi6 network at home, and no other device has experienced playback issues with Amazon Music (or anything else for that matter). When the music gets stuck, checking the network settings shows a WiFi signal from 'okay' to 'weak.' It doesn't matter if I play Amazon Music directly from within the WiiM Home app, or play it directly from the Amazon Music app on the iPhone, it still randomly stops playing. Interestingly if I use the Amazon Music app on the iPhone and stream it to a different device, IT NEVER FREEZES.

I'm honestly thinking about returning my new WiiM Ultra if I can't get this Amazon Music playback issue resolved. Maybe I have a defective unit, it has a network stack bug, or the Ultra just wasn't ready to be released. Given that Amazon Music is almost unusable, I'd be happy to use Apple Music instead, yet it's not even supported. One of the largest music streaming services on the planet, and it's not support on what's supposed to be a premium music streamer, that's almost inconceivable! Yes I know it's "coming" and we've seen mention that AirPlay2 won't be supported, so no idea when and what is actually "coming" I did finally open a support ticket thru the WiiM Home app. They initially said it looked like a network issue, but escalated it to engineering, so we'll see what they come back with. Hopefully they can solve the issue, it doesn't make sense that the only device here having an issue playing back Amazon Music is the newly released WiiM Ultra.

Did it work with the new firmware yesterday? Are you outputting to an external DAC by toslink and have music bit depth set to 24? That's what gave me similar symptoms to you. Fixed it by changing to 16 bit. If youre playing direct from wiim ultra I have no idea.

 

[museumsteve]

Can I add to this thread as I picked up the Ultra specifically for Amazon Music HD/UHD. I have lag, so much lag. It can take anything up to 10 seconds to start playing a chosen track and if I decide to skip to the next track it can take anything up to 15-20 seconds to actually play. I always use wired connection (on 900mbps full fibre) but also tried wireless. Have also tried alexacast which made little difference.
I have done a factory reset and I have tried using all outputs and nothing has improved.
I have submitted a ticket but wont sit on it for long as I'd rather just return it and pick up something else.

 

[Burnside]

Can I add to this thread as I picked up the Ultra specifically for Amazon Music HD/UHD. I have lag, so much lag. It can take anything up to 10 seconds to start playing a chosen track and if I decide to skip to the next track it can take anything up to 15-20 seconds to actually play. I always use wired connection (on 900mbps full fibre) but also tried wireless. Have also tried alexacast which made little difference.
I have done a factory reset and I have tried using all outputs and nothing has improved.
I have submitted a ticket but wont sit on it for long as I'd rather just return it and pick up something else.

Amazon Music isn’t unknown for this but you shouldn’t be exceeding a few seconds, maybe a max of five.

Have you tried changing your device’s network settings in the WiiM Home app under network status, say turning on 5gHz only and preferred DNS server to 8.8.8.8, and turning off both Wi-fi roaming and IPv6?

 

[Burnside]

Update: I’ve just tried my setup casting from my new iPad to my Ultra and I get a max of four seconds delay starting or skipping to a new track which is acceptable for me. I think it has been mentioned in the past that Amazon’s regional music servers might play a part in this (@Wiimer if I recall has some experience of this) but I’d try the network settings I suggest above and see if that helps matters for you.

 

[Longfellow78]

Can I add to this thread as I picked up the Ultra specifically for Amazon Music HD/UHD. I have lag, so much lag. It can take anything up to 10 seconds to start playing a chosen track and if I decide to skip to the next track it can take anything up to 15-20 seconds to actually play. I always use wired connection (on 900mbps full fibre) but also tried wireless. Have also tried alexacast which made little difference.
I have done a factory reset and I have tried using all outputs and nothing has improved.
I have submitted a ticket but wont sit on it for long as I'd rather just return it and pick up something else.

Are you outputting to an external DAC via toslink? Or playing straight from the device? If the latter I had this problem when set to 24 bit audio. Fixed by switching to coax