Ultra compared to Pro + when using outboard DAC

[RAAM]

I have a brand new Ultra I have never used yet, had a Pro + I should of kept until I could test them against each other but unfortunately I sold it. Full time in an RV, space is at a premium so considering buying another Pro + and selling the Ultra or make a part trade, etc.....Everything has to fit on a 24x54" desktop A 27" monitor, SFF computer, keyboard, mouse, computer speakers, small tube amp, streamer, tablet, DAC, etc...and not look crowded, right

I will be using a very good older tablet to control the streamer so the Ultra screen does not matter. I also have the ifi power supply for the Pro +

My main question is if using a good outboard DAC does one streamer sound better than the other?
(My current DAC is the Topping E70 Velvet)

I like the idea of the sub out on the Ultra but likely will not need or use it as my DAC can be used to drive the sub(s) if I end up needing them which would have it's own gain control.

Any other helpful info would be greatly appreciated as well.

For those of the measurements are all the matters crowd kindly keep your opinions to yourself, if you cannot hear a difference I am actually glad for you, makes things much easier I am only interested in responses from those that can hear differences.

Thanks!
Rick

 

[Mr Ee]

My main question is if using a good outboard DAC does one streamer sound better than the other?

As an example, into my rme adi2 dac fs I can't tell the difference between any of my wiims (mini, pro, ultra) / connection method (optical, coax, usb).
All pass the rme's bit perfect test.
All sound great.
Others may (and will ) disagree.

 

[Wiimer]

I have a brand new Ultra I have never used yet, had a Pro + I should of kept until I could test them against each other but unfortunately I sold it. Full time in an RV, space is at a premium so considering buying another Pro + and selling the Ultra or make a part trade, etc.....Everything has to fit on a 24x54" desktop A 27" monitor, SFF computer, keyboard, mouse, computer speakers, small tube amp, streamer, tablet, DAC, etc...and not look crowded, right

I will be using a very good older tablet to control the streamer so the Ultra screen does not matter. I also have the ifi power supply for the Pro +

My main question is if using a good outboard DAC does one streamer sound better than the other?
(My current DAC is the Topping E70 Velvet)

I like the idea of the sub out on the Ultra but likely will not need or use it as my DAC can be used to drive the sub(s) if I end up needing them which would have it's own gain control.

Any other helpful info would be greatly appreciated as well.

If I were you.
If I hear the Ultra and feel that the sound quality has improved, I would not let it go.

If the sale price of the Ultra is significantly less than the purchase price, I would not sell it.

However, if I really need a Pro plus, I will buy more or replace it.

For those of the measurements are all the matters crowd kindly keep your opinions to yourself, if you cannot hear a difference I am actually glad for you, makes things much easier I am only interested in responses from those that can hear differences.

If I answer that question, how can you determine that I have a superior ear?

 

[Mr Ee]

I am only interested in responses from those that can hear differences.

lol, I obviously didn't read to the end of the post!

 

[RAAM]

Thanks for the replies!

I will look at the Pro as well, I would like at least 3 inputs but can use less as my DAC has some extra ones as well.

I was just looking at the Ultra again and realize my most favorite amp would sit on top of it just fine, just hope no noise introduced into the system doing so. It is a Baby Sophia 10 watt PP amp with all upgrades and sounds incredible to me, plenty good enough, and building a fairly large set of rear horn loaded speakers so more than enough power.

I will also be building one or two high quality D class amps when I can get to it, just to try them out on the main speakers but could power a couple of small subs if needed with the main speakers I am building. (Frugal-Horn Joan cabinets, Mark Audio MA200 drivers that I hope give enough bass to not need subs)

As for you having a "superior ear" only you can determine if you can hear a difference and as mentioned I am glad for those that cannot hear differences, things are much simpler and less costly that way, I am just not one of those types

I can also hear cable differences but draw the line on how far I will go, DIY only and most of my cables cost $25 or less to build, most I would ever imagine investing might be $100 per pair, etc...as my belief is that once you get past a certain point you might hear differences but that does not mean better, just different and some might match a particular system and ones sound preferences.

Rick

 

[AlanB]

If I answer that question, how can you determine that I have a superior ear?

Only the one?

 

[Wiimer]

Only the one?

Definitely!
The other one belongs to my wife

 

[adias]

I do hear differences. In the Pro (not the Pro Plus which I do not have) the toslink sounds better than coax. The Ultra USB trumps it though.

 

[RAAM]

Thanks adias, this does help a bit

I hope to hear from someone that has compared the Pro Plus to the Ultra.

 

[hgo58]

Thanks adias, this does help a bit

I hope to hear from someone that has compared the Pro Plus to the Ultra.

I have Pro Plus via coax into a pair of wireless active speakers and Ultra optical into the same. I don't hear any difference when streaming from Tidal.

Now, the wireless hub for the speakers do convet the input to package transfer via WiFi to each speaker and it is the pre-DAC circuit in the speaker that do the clocking etc, so that may explain why there is no difference?

In general there should be no difference between the two interface types, as data is exactly the same. Bad connections and transmission noise may however introduce errors and lower the quality, especially on coax.

 

[RAAM]

Thanks hgo58

That does clarify things a bit but also opens up another question, or two.....

What difference is there between the coax and optical output on those devices, if any?

Years ago I was working out that issue with one piece of gear where the coax(SPDIF) was tapped into for the optical output and I could tell no difference but again it as the same source. In your case it seems to point to the difference sources still sounding the same and might if the outputs were swapped, ever try this? Optical out from the Pro Plus and Coax from the Ultra, if they have both outputs that is. (I will go take a look right now)

I ask this as there are those of us that believe the data does not always end up being the same, maybe in ones and zero's but there are other issues that can effect how it sounds. Example is some find upgraded power supplies can and do make a big difference, I have ifi power supply and it improved the digital output of the Pro Plus.

Rick

 

[rccarguy]

I'm using digital out, nut went for the Ultra. For the screen, and USB support (so connect USB HD and the UMIK1)

 

[hgo58]

Thanks hgo58

That does clarify things a bit but also opens up another question, or two.....

What difference is there between the coax and optical output on those devices, if any?

The way the digital signal is transmitted is the only difference. Both are SPDIF.
So it's very much up to the transmitter circuit, the cable and receiver circuit if any errors are introduced. Only errors in the data can make them worse compared to the other.

Years ago I was working out that issue with one piece of gear where the coax(SPDIF) was tapped into for the optical output and I could tell no difference but again it as the same source. In your case it seems to point to the difference sources still sounding the same and might if the outputs were swapped, ever try this?

Yes. Did have it the other way round at one time. No difference to me but we know that the clock in the Ultra is better than in the Pro. This should however not mean anything for the sound quality, as the resulting jitter noise is below what you can hear (not everyone agrees to that).

I ask this as there are those of us that believe the data does not always end up being the same, maybe in ones and zero's but there are other issues that can effect how it sounds. Example is some find upgraded power supplies can and do make a big difference, I have ifi power supply and it improved the digital output of the Pro Plus.

Rick

I am not one of those believers. If you have a really bad (broken) power supply changing it may remove analog noise that could else be transmitted via the Coax or line out. The digital signal don't change due to different power supplies. It either works or not.

If data would get corrupted by noise from the power, then it would also happen to the CPU and the device would crash.

 

[RAAM]

You make a good point though I disagree with it from personal experience as the PS can introduce noise that can effect the end result in sound quality that I can here. There was not a huge improvement using upgraded power supply but it was obvious to me. As mentioned before, those that cannot hear the difference are at an advantage to those that can, I used different words but the same meaning in a prior post.

Everyone is a bit different in how we perceive things, beliefs, experiences, etc and though not stated here, the scientific approach does not always apply as we are far from knowing everything about, anything

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I might end up keeping the Ultra after all. I set my tube amp on top of it and it fits very nicely as saves much needed space on my desktop. I will have to check to see if any introduced noise issues though using it that way.

I have a very good tablet I could use, much bigger than the ultra screen, with the Ultra or Pro Plus but not sure where to put it unless I put the DIY custom built SFF computer under the desk where the router, outlets, BD player, etc already reside and the desktop is only 24" deep.....

Since I sit pretty close to the monitor I am searching for a reasonable priced 21-22" one instead of the great 27" I now have. I tried a 24" I have on hand but not as good as the 27 display is. I have a 21 and 19 but they are old and do not even have DP or other newer inputs, just DVI, I brought them home from storage just to get an idea how the size would look. I will fire up one of my older SFF computers I am getting ready to sell and see how the size looks that way.

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I will see if I have the energy to setup the system tomorrow, total remodel of our full time RV, system has been offline for months, just to much work going on, to much noise and dust.

I may of found a place I can use the tablet on the other side of the desk from the streamer though right next to the computer which might not be optimal as well.

Thanks for yours and all other posts, much appreciated!
Rick