WiiM Amp blows NAD M10v2

[ToniToni]

A slightly more expensive WiiM amplifier with a little more power and room correction would indeed blow the NAD away…

Why?

 

[layer9]

Maybe you are right. But speaking for myself I actually came from Mainstream Audio and usually would not have come to the idea of buying an amplifier for so little money. It‘s just because of the mostly very positive reviews I decided to give it a try.

And now that I made the entry with a cheap product I am convinced of WiiM. And if there was a Amp Pro that solves the problems i.e. with load dependency, little too less power and missing EQ functionality: Here I am!

It‘s like buying an iPhone and then start thinking if a MacBook might be a good idea as well.

 

[layer9]

Why?

Because I don‘t think such an better amp will be in the price range of the NAD. Therefore if there‘s a WiiM Amp Pro i.e. for let’s say less than 1k that would blow more expensive products as there would not be much improvement with them.

And tbh the improvement of the NAD over the much cheaper WiiM Amp is already small…

 

[cooky560]

A slightly more expensive WiiM amplifier with a little more power and room correction would indeed blow the NAD away…

If this happens i'll be first in line to have a 2 WiiM amp household...

 

[Ian B]

Hi,

I recently bought both the WiiM Amp and NAD M10v2 for testing both:

View attachment 6419

Long story short: I‘ll go with the WiiM Amp and will sell the NAD.

Although the NAD has Dirac Live I am able to achieve the same soundstage using WiiMs EQ which is also much easier to use. Measuring the room with the NADs microphone did not make much difference so I had to manually edit the EQ for my room anyway.

What really is annoying is that the NAD constantly drops out of the network. A few hours after going to standby the NAD just disappears from my network and I have to unplug power in order to restore access.

I am driving a pair of Elac Vela BS 404.2 with the amplifiers and both perform very well - and there is actually no difference between the NAD (Hypex nCore) and the WiiM with its Texas Instruments power amplifiers as long as no EQ is used. Volume gain is good on both with my speakers (87db).

I only use AirPlay 2 for steaming music from my iPhone so I can’t say much about the BlueOS app from the NAD. However it looks polished and fast, so this might be the only area in which the NAD can compete with the WiiM.

Bottom line is that from my point of view the WiiM just blows a product that is almost 10 times the price of the WiiM Amp. I will sell the NAD and keep the WiiM!

Cheers
Michael

My suspicion (and I'm always willing to be proven wrong) is that there is no reason why audio electronics should cost exorbitant amounts. A good design can be replicated at infinitum, there's nothing in it that has to be particularly expensive., or handmade, or use angels' tears.

Some genuinely, fervently believe that a €100 DAC can't possibly sound anywhere near as good as a €1000 one, but I'm highly sceptical of the idea that it can. I'm certainly sceptical of the idea that it can meaningfully increase the joy I get from my music, which ought to be the object of any upgrade.

I love the WiiM amp (and what the
WiiM platform brings to the party in general) because it's making clearer and clearer to a lot of people that, especially before you reach the transducers, there's little or no reason to p**s money up the wall.

At home I have 2 systems, the WiiM Amp paired with Bowers & Wilkins 607 S3 bookshelf speakers, these are setup in my home office and its a lovely system with great sound. But I also have a Hegel H390 integrated Amp powering my Spendor D7.2 floor standers and there is a gulf of class that is impossible to overlook between the two systems. At literally 10 times the price, the H390\D7.2 utterly crushes the WiiM amp\B&W pairing as you would expect. For me its all about horses for courses - when I want uncompromising deep and immersive listening sessions and to be completely thrilled, blown away and transported to another realm, the H390\D7.2 is waiting for me in the lounge. When I want some background music while I work or lean back in my office chair and turn up some cheeky funk, the WiiM Amp\B&Ws do the trick perfectly every time.

High end gear is expensive for a reason, and if you get the combinations right, its the real deal.

 

[steadyshot]

At home I have 2 systems, the WiiM Amp paired with Bowers & Wilkins 607 S3 bookshelf speakers, these are setup in my home office and its a lovely system with great sound. But I also have a Hegel H390 integrated Amp powering my Spendor D7.2 floor standers and there is a gulf of class that is impossible to overlook between the two systems. At literally 10 times the price, the H390\D7.2 utterly crushes the WiiM amp\B&W pairing as you would expect. For me its all about horses for courses - when I want uncompromising deep and immersive listening sessions and to be completely thrilled, blown away and transported to another realm, the H390\D7.2 is waiting for me in the lounge. When I want some background music while I work or lean back in my office chair and turn up some cheeky funk, the WiiM Amp\B&Ws do the trick perfectly every time.

High end expensive gear is expensive for a reason, and if you get the combinations right, its the real deal.

Problem is when someone confuses background music with hi fi . Not you obviously

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

“Utterly crushes…”?

 

[Mr Ee]

“Utterly crushes…”?

Yep.
My pro1 system utterly crushes any of my others.
Must be the Hegel

 

[Ian B]

“Utterly crushes…”?

Perhaps my choice of language is a little exuberant, but you get the idea I'm sure

 

[harkpabst]

High end gear is expensive for a reason, and if you get the combinations right, its the real deal.

I have no reason to disagree. However, I bet the gap could be closed by a certain margin (no, not a big margin, but meaningful) by adding a decent subwoofer to your WiiM based system. Do you have the need to? Probably not. Do I follow my own advice? No, I don't (just gave it a quick try to proof my own point), because it's just good enough as a bedroom system with the least amount of clutter.

But for those using their WiiM Amp as the main system, adding a sub can make a heck of a difference, especially when used with bookshelf speakers.

Subwoofers for stereo music reproduction used to be a big no-no for "audiophiles". Integration with the main speakers was a PITA and lots of strange practices and recommendations from this dark age are still lurking around (like you had to match your sub to the "natural roll-off" of your main speakers). The WiiM Amp offers almost complete bass management with configurable high and low pass filtering that does away with all this crap. It's the least expensive amplifier I'm aware of to combine subwoofer management, PEQ, network streaming and (soon to come) room correction. And I didn't even mention the slick design and tiny form factor. Make use of its strong points and it will reward you with unparalleled value.

Honestly, I don't see the WiiM Amp as a real contender for NAD M10v2. But it might just be good enough for many and the basic concepts don't differ that much, indeed.

Fun fact: The German NAD site lists as one of the differences between the M10 and M10v2: "Updated amplifier tuning with 6 dB higher output levels". That's something the WiiM Amp v2 could use as well ...

 

[es6rd6z]

At home I have 2 systems, the WiiM Amp paired with Bowers & Wilkins 607 S3 bookshelf speakers, these are setup in my home office and its a lovely system with great sound. But I also have a Hegel H390 integrated Amp powering my Spendor D7.2 floor standers and there is a gulf of class that is impossible to overlook between the two systems. At literally 10 times the price, the H390\D7.2 utterly crushes the WiiM amp\B&W pairing as you would expect. For me its all about horses for courses - when I want uncompromising deep and immersive listening sessions and to be completely thrilled, blown away and transported to another realm, the H390\D7.2 is waiting for me in the lounge. When I want some background music while I work or lean back in my office chair and turn up some cheeky funk, the WiiM Amp\B&Ws do the trick perfectly every time.

High end gear is expensive for a reason, and if you get the combinations right, its the real deal.

This is more of a speaker comparison than an amp comparison, though. Towers always sound better than bookshelf models, especially if they're in a significantly higher price class.

 

[steadyshot]

This is more of a speaker comparison than an amp comparison, though. Towers always sound better than bookshelf models, especially if they're in a significantly higher price class.

Only if they have very good cabins . Since the bigger the volume of the cabin the higher the resonances

 

[VladaJ]

High end gear is expensive for a reason, and if you get the combinations right, its the real deal.

Agree 100% with this.

I was using the WiiM Amp and the Atoll IN100 Signature in the same room, connected to the same speakers, and although the Atoll is not high-end by any means, sound from it was significantly more detailed, more dynamic and better balanced than with WiiM Amp. On the other hand, Atoll is a 4 times more expensive piece and commands an additional DAC and streamer.

But, there is also a question of a baseline: WiiM Amp in my opinion is quite a good baseline for those of us who don't aspire to get some crazy high-end sound in our rooms. It sets the bar high enough, both in terms of sound quality and especially in terms of features. Measured by that, other gear needs to be really good in order to show a clear and significant increase in sound quality which might justify the price difference (usually very high difference).

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

Time And time again we’ve seen expensive kit which, when properly measured, is shown to be noisier, lower dynamic range, higher levels of distortion, and poorer frequency response than far, far cheaper kit.

Simply applying the rule “you get what you pay for” is exactly the method which produced “a fool and his money are soon parted”.

We face lots of hi-fi gear now which will produce sound indistinguishable from the listening room in which it was mixed (speakers aside) which can be had very very little money.

 

[BowsAndArrows]

yes, i agree with @Fender. there are more reasons than purely priceerformance etc that govern people's purchasing decisions.

but i urge people to look at it from the other side of the equation as well. imo it's not a sustainable long term business model to bank on an endless supply of "idiots" overpaying for your underperforming gear... you might make a quick buck and get away with it once or twice, but over time the market will catch most of these types of bad actors out...

i mean, even legitimate businesses with good products in audio go out of business all the time, so if you have survived a long time in a market that has evolved over the decades, you must have been doing something right

 

[Steve Woodhouse]

@Steve Woodhouse If optic, haptic, an eventual resale price and personal bias or love for brands or design is not important for one I agree with most of your post. It was never so cheap to get good (!) results in audio. But not everyone who loves to spend lots of his money for things he likes here is a fool. So "you get what you pay for" is at least as questionable as "all who spend much are idiots".
If one is really keen to go the last centimeters it will be expensive. I was blocked on the last two meters ;-)

Fair points, and I there’s a subtlety here - I didn’t say someone is a fool just for spending more. For sure, sometimes you need to spend more.

And I fundamentally agree that there’s something to be said for what we might place under the umbrella term ‘pride of ownership’, no question.

 

[layer9]

Guys, the NAD is getting better and better the more I am into Dirac. It is interesting what subtle changes to the EQ curve can impact listening quality!

However, WiiM still very very good for its price tag. WiiM Amp v2 is a safe buy for me.

 

[merifon]

Guys, the NAD is getting better and better the more I am into Dirac. It is interesting what subtle changes to the EQ curve can impact listening quality!

However, WiiM still very very good for its price tag. WiiM Amp v2 is a safe buy for me.

I agree...
Build from walls a dedicated and precisely designed listening room or go with Dirac.
Anything else will be always a merely and unsatisfactory compromise...

 

[harkpabst]

I agree...
Build from walls a dedicated and precisely designed listening room or go with Dirac.
Anything else will be always a merely and unsatisfactory compromise...

Anything else? I don't think so. There are definitely alternatives. RoomPerfect works brilliantly (and brilliantly simple).

 

[merifon]

Anything else? I don't think so. There are definitely alternatives. RoomPerfect works brilliantly (and brilliantly simple).

Yes, it could be... I was more extensively meaning about the concept of any real effective correction system. Don't know about RoomPerfect but I can absolutely trust Dirac.
My previous post should have been: "Or go with a good correction system"...