Wiim Amp Ultra - Polk Audio XT20 & SVS SB 1000 Pro - Configuration

[Andrew78]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the Wiim world!
I recently purchased a Wiim Amp Ultra in combination with Polk XT20 speakers and I have to say I'm very happy!
To complete my system yesterday I purchased a SVS SB 1000 Pro Subwoofer. The Sub will be connected via the Sub Out output and LFE input.
Can you please give me some advice on how to best configure it? (Be patient i'm a beginner )
Does it make sense to use the SVS app to control the subwoofer or do you recommend I do everything from the Wiim Home app?
Thanks in advance everyone

 

[harkpabst]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the Wiim world!
I recently purchased a Wiim Amp Ultra in combination with Polk XT20 speakers and I have to say I'm very happy!
To complete my system yesterday I purchased a SVS SB 1000 Pro Subwoofer. The Sub will be connected via the Sub Out output and LFE input.
Can you please give me some advice on how to best configure it? (Be patient i'm a beginner )
Does it make sense to use the SVS app to control the subwoofer or do you recommend I do everything from the Wiim Home app?
Thanks in advance everyone

Such an easy question to ask ... and so may ways to answer it.

You will probably get differing advice from different people, so I'll try to be the first of them. My basic recommendation is to see the subwoofer setup as an iterative process. Don't expect a single magical "this is the right way" button anywhere. Start with what is good common practice and try out variations if you feel like it.

Obviously, I already posted about this topic too often, so, here is the very short version:

Post in thread 'Sub settings?'

Oct 23, 2024

Always a good idea to just start with the default settings. They are the default for a reason.

So, leave the crossover frequency at 80 Hz. Use the LFE input on the Gravis I (the crossover know has no effect on the LFE input). Set LFE level to roughly 50%. From this point there is now way around trying it out for yourself.

• If the sub is too loud, decrease the level within the WiiM Home App (much better and more convenient than changing it on the sub).
• Try the phase switch in both settings, 0° and 180°. Whatever results in louder bass is right. Re-adjust level if...

• harkpabst

• 

A bit more in detail:

Post in thread 'Help with subwoofer settings please'

Aug 6, 2024

Don't worry about whatever specs the speaker manufacturer may publish. It's (almost) irrelevant for subwoofer integration, as long as you don't try to cross noticeably lower than the specified lower limit.

• Set the volume on the sub to something around 50%.
• Set the phase on the sub to 0°.
• Use the LFE input on the sub, if present. If there is none, turn the crossover frequency dial all the way up to the highest possible value. You don't want and don't need the sub to apply its own filtering.
• In the WiiM Home App, just start with...

• harkpabst

• 

I have no first hand experience with the SVS software. From the top of my head I seem to remember that it supports one PEQ filter through its DSP and there's nothing wrong with using it.

I would start with a default setup as described above. Leave the filtering to the WiiM Amp Pro and disable the low pass filter (and DSP for now) on the 1000 Pro. Once your satisfied with the result, let the SVS app apply its DSP filtering (still avoid the built-in low pass filter). You might have to readjust the delay after this step. Finally, run the WiiM room correction algorithm RoomFit. Again, you can start with the defaults, but you will find a lot of advice on how to set it up according to your room and requirements.

Then just listen for some time. You can try out other options later, but you'll have to re-run RoomFit whenever you have changed your subwoofer settings in any way. Good luck and have some fun!

 

[Andrew78]

Hi, thank you for your help!

I found an interesting guide on the svs site to best match the SVS SB1000 pro with my Polk Monitor XT20 (I'll leave you the link below):

Merlin - Quick Start Guide

www2.svsound.com

1) LFE active on the Subwoofer and cut at 80 HZ (on wiim app) --> then run wiim room correction

2) On Wiim Amp Ultra:
- Subwoofer bypass mode: On
- Main Speakers output bass: On

On the SVS App:
Set the subwoofer amplifier's low pass filter frequency to 60 Hz. Set the subwoofer amplifier's low pass filter slope to 24 dB/octave.
(This is the optimal low pass filter setting for your SVS subwoofer when operating your Polk Audio Monitor XT20 Bookshelf Speaker loudspeakers full bandwidth.)
Finally run wiim room correction

As soon as I get the subwoofer I would start with these two configurations.
Let me know what you think!
thanks a lot

 

[harkpabst]

2) On Wiim Amp Ultra:
- Subwoofer bypass mode: On
- Main Speakers output bass: On

On the SVS App:
Set the subwoofer amplifier's low pass filter frequency to 60 Hz. Set the subwoofer amplifier's low pass filter slope to 24 dB/octave.
(This is the optimal low pass filter setting for your SVS subwoofer when operating your Polk Audio Monitor XT20 Bookshelf Speaker loudspeakers full bandwidth.)
Finally run wiim room correction

Yup, this is exactly how I would not do it.

All those setup guided do not take into account the bass management capabilities of the WiiM Amplifiers and the WiiM Ultra. You're bette off following roughly the procedure for AVRs. These tiny 5.25" woofers will benefit from high pass filtering at 80 Hz (less cone movement, less distortion).

As I said, this is my personal recommendation. You're free to try it either way and there's nothing wrong with spending some time fiddling.

 

[Andrew78]

Yup, this is exactly how I would not do it.

All those setup guided do not take into account the bass management capabilities of the WiiM Amplifiers and the WiiM Ultra. You're bette off following roughly the procedure for AVRs. These tiny 5.25" woofers will benefit from high pass filtering at 80 Hz (less cone movement, less distortion).

As I said, this is my personal recommendation. You're free to try it either way and there's nothing wrong with spending some time fiddling.

Okay then I'll go with option 1. LFE active and cut to 80hz. After that I will try to refine further from these settings.

 

[Andrew78]

Yup, this is exactly how I would not do it.

All those setup guided do not take into account the bass management capabilities of the WiiM Amplifiers and the WiiM Ultra. You're bette off following roughly the procedure for AVRs. These tiny 5.25" woofers will benefit from high pass filtering at 80 Hz (less cone movement, less distortion).

As I said, this is my personal recommendation. You're free to try it either way and there's nothing wrong with spending some time fiddling.

Hello Everyone!
Finally i've got my new SVS SB 1000 Pro and now i'm starting with the configurations
I followed your advice and those of the Wiim guide:
On the Subwoofer:
- LFE Active on subwoofer
- Volume -15db (as suggested by Svs for starting initial config)
- Phase 0°

- On wiim App:
- Cut at 80 HZ
- Subwoofer and Speaker synchronized: (latency speakers 2ms the sub is very close to the right speaker)

And those are some information about it (sorry for the Italian of the menu )

In your opinion, what could I do to further improve the configuration?
Thanks in advance everyone

 

[dominikz]

Hello Everyone!
Finally i've got my new SVS SB 1000 Pro and now i'm starting with the configurations
I followed your advice and those of the Wiim guide:
On the Subwoofer:
- LFE Active on subwoofer
- Volume -15db (as suggested by Svs for starting initial config)
- Phase 0°

- On wiim App:
- Cut at 80 HZ
- Subwoofer and Speaker synchronized: (latency speakers 2ms the sub is very close to the right speaker)

And those are some information about it (sorry for the Italian of the menu )

In your opinion, what could I do to further improve the configuration?
Thanks in advance everyone

Hello! That is a pretty nice set of gear! At the moment your bass response is not ideal, but I'm sure it can be improved with some tweaking.

May I first suggest to have a look at this FAQ article for guidance on basic speaker/subwoofer placement and Room Correction (RC) settings? The article content is based on this post.

A few general comments regarding the article content:

• This is not mentioned explicitly, but it is assumed you will use the "Individual Channel Room Correction" variant when the option is presented.
• Article was written prior to separation of min and max gain in WiiM RC. Due to a limitation of current WiiM RC algorithm I suggest to start with Min Gain = -12dB and Max Gain +3dB.
• Unfortunately WiiM automatic "Subwoofer & Speakers Sync" function is not really implemented well for subwoofer integration, since it uses the bult-in microphone of the WiiM device which is not normally located at the listening position - so the relative delays can be way off in practice. See e.g. this post for reference. As a result, I recommend to use manual time alignment instead (a bit more on this below).
• Loudspeaker and subwoofer placement is key for good bass quality and should be optimized as best as possible prior to running RC - this cannot be overstated. I've provided some argumentation for my placement recommendations in this post. I also suggest to read this article by Genelec.
• Recently another member was struggling with a similar situation, and we provided guidance to him in this thread - the bass response was improved significantly (see result here) by tweaking placement and WiiM RC settings.

Another key factor for bass quality is subwoofer integration. This is IMHO best tweaked with the free REW software (link), and again should be done before running final RC. The main intention is to:

• Avoid the response dip/cancellation at the crossover frequency by tweaking subwoofer phase and delay.
  • Note that you will need to take into account both the sound propagation time delay due to difference in sub/speaker distance to your listening position (roughly 3ms for every 1m of distance difference), as well as the delay introduced by the subwoofer on-board DSP. Based on this post, the SVS SB-1000 Pro DSP should introduce 6ms of delay. However if you can measure phase and group delay of your individual loudspeakers and your subwoofer at your listening position with REW that would be best for precise alignment.
• Get subwoofer aligned in level to the main loudspeakers by tweaking the sub level control. It is better to have the sub slightly louder than the speakers initially, as any peaks will be knocked down later by RC.

Lastly, I see you are using your phone microphone to calibrate; this is what is causing the massive peak at 8kHz in your response measurements.
If you can get your hands on a calibrated measurement mic (like e.g. miniDSP UMIK-1 or Dayton iMM-6c) that should make your RC calibrations (and REW measurements) much more reliable.

Hope this helps and have fun!

 

[Andrew78]

Hello Dominikz and thanks for the valuable suggestions

Ok I followed what you wrote and below are the new configurations:
Subwoofer and Speakers 20° of alignment towards the listening point

Subwoofer and speaker sync:
- Subwoofer output latency = 0ms
- Speakers output latency = 2ms (the sub is very close to the right speaker)

Room Correction Settings:
- Target Curve = B&K
- Freq = 20 - 400 Hz
- Max Positive Gain = 0.5 dB
- Max Negative Gain = -12 dB
- Max Q = 10
- Smoothing = 1/12 Octave
- Subwoofer Calibration = Enabled
- Multiple Measurements = Enabled
- Precision Room Correction = Disabled

I used the mic of my Oppo Find X3 Pro (I saw that it's not that great but at the moment it's what I have )

Attached are the results after some tests.
It seems a little better, I have to fix that peak in the bass and treble (do you have any suggestions on this for me? )
I will try to do other tests following well what you wrote me ... I hope to be able to get a decent result in the end!

Many Thanks for the valuable suggestions.

 

[harkpabst]

- Subwoofer output latency = 0ms
- Speakers output latency = 2ms (the sub is very close to the right speaker)

Short hint (since this might not be so obvious):
There is always only one of theses settings in effect.

If you set a value for "Main Speakers Output Latency", then the setting for "Subwoofer Output Latency" is reset and vice versa. There is only ever the need for one of these settings. Either the subwoofer output is delayed (which is usually the case), so you need to add latency to the mains or the other way around.

Your measurements don't indicate an obvious problem in the crossover region, but I would probably try higher latency values (like 5 to 8 ms, too). It's not just about bathe relative position of sub and speakers. Subwoofers (in particular those with their own DSP) tend to have their own delay. I seem to remember that SVS subs were usually speced with a 5 ms delay just due to the DSP.

Ideally, you would check the difference with something like REW, indeed. If you don't have access to an external microphone and/or no experience with REW you can try to optimise this setting by ear, too. Whatever setting gives the loudest response at the crossover frequency (80 Hz so far) is better. Also. You can try the polarity switch (0⁰ or 180⁰). You should note instantly which is better (= louder).

 

[dominikz]

No problem!

Subwoofer and speaker sync:
- Subwoofer output latency = 0ms
- Speakers output latency = 2ms (the sub is very close to the right speaker)

How did you calculate the latency? Note that the WiiM automatic "Subwoofer & Speakers Sync" function doesn't work well enough so manual tuning of these parameters might be needed. As I mentioned above (and as @harkpabst noted as well), SVS DSP-equipped subs have 5-6ms of additional latency so adding only 2ms delay to the speakers seems a bit low. As @harkpabst suggested, I'd expect the optimal Speakers output latency value to be somewhere between 5-8ms - but this would best be determined by some REW measurements.

Ok I followed what you wrote and below are the new configurations:
Subwoofer and Speakers 20° of alignment towards the listening point

Can you detail your loudspeaker and subwoofer placement layout - specifically how far are front-faces (i.e. side with drivers) of loudspeakers and sub from the adjoining walls? Best would be to draw a simplified floor plan marking the distances to each boundary.

- Max Positive Gain = 0.5 dB

As mentioned in the previous post, due to a current RC limitation I recommend to set Max Positive Gain ("Max gain") to +3dB. Leave "Min Gain" at -12dB.

It seems a little better, I have to fix that peak in the bass and treble (do you have any suggestions on this for me? )

The treble peak at 8kHz is not "real", it is an artifact caused by the phone microphone - so don't try to fix it. This "problem" wouldn't exist if you had an external measurement mic connected for WiiM RC.

IMHO your main problem at the moment is the bass dip/null at around 45Hz. This is probably caused by an SBIR cancellation (due to the distance from your subwoofer to one of the walls). How far is your sub from all of the walls at the moment?
As a simple experiment can you try to move your sub to one of the room corner and re-do the RC calibration to see if the dip goes away?

EDIT: It seems that this time you used "Stereo Room Correction". I suggest to always use "Individual Channel Room Correction" instead.

 

[Andrew78]

Hi guys, thanks for the advice.

Now I set the speakers output latency to 8 ms

Room Correction Settings:
- Max Positive Gain = + 3 dB
- Max Negative Gain = -12 dB

I confirm that it is in stereo room correction because If the Subwoofer calibration is enabled, the Room Correction process will be limited to Stereo Room Correction only.

Below are the room measurements (sorry if the measurements are in meters and centimeters )
I also put a photo of the complete system.
Attached you will find the new graph (as you can see now i have two low peaks at 43/44 Hz and at 100 Hz probably due of the mic on the phone)

Let me know what you think and what I could further improve.


Thanks a lot for the help

 

[slartibartfast]

Hi guys, thanks for the advice.

Now I set the speakers output latency to 8 ms

Room Correction Settings:
- Max Positive Gain = + 3 dB
- Max Negative Gain = -12 dB

I confirm that it is in stereo room correction because If the Subwoofer calibration is enabled, the Room Correction process will be limited to Stereo Room Correction only.

Below are the room measurements (sorry if the measurements are in meters and centimeters )
I also put a photo of the complete system.
Attached you will find the new graph (as you can see now i have two low peaks at 43/44 Hz and at 100 Hz probably due of the mic on the phone)

Let me know what you think and what I could further improve.


Thanks a lot for the help

It's the "mmm" method that limits the room correction to stereo, not the subwoofer.

 

[Andrew78]

It's the "mmm" method that limits the room correction to stereo, not the subwoofer.

Can you explain better please?
Should I disable subwoofer calibration?

 

[slartibartfast]

Can you explain better please?
Should I disable subwoofer calibration?

With moving mic measurement selected you are limited to stereo correction.

If you turn it off you get a choice of stereo or individual channel.

 

[Andrew78]

Ok Thanks for the help!
Below is the graph (left channel above, right channel below)

 

[dominikz]

Hi guys, thanks for the advice.

Now I set the speakers output latency to 8 ms

Room Correction Settings:
- Max Positive Gain = + 3 dB
- Max Negative Gain = -12 dB

I confirm that it is in stereo room correction because If the Subwoofer calibration is enabled, the Room Correction process will be limited to Stereo Room Correction only.

Below are the room measurements (sorry if the measurements are in meters and centimeters )
I also put a photo of the complete system.
Attached you will find the new graph (as you can see now i have two low peaks at 43/44 Hz and at 100 Hz probably due of the mic on the phone)

Let me know what you think and what I could further improve.


Thanks a lot for the help

Looking at your layout, I believe the main problem is the location of the subwoofer.
The distance from the center of the subwoofer front-face to the hard wall on the right (where the WiFi is) is roughly 1,6m, correct?
If so, that probably explains the dip at ~45Hz.

Ok Thanks for the help!
Below is the graph (left channel above, right channel below)

Unfortunately this doesn't look correct. There should be much more bass, looking at your previous screenshots.
Did you keep the subwoofer calibration enabled and was the subwoofer out of standby prior to starting the calibration?

 

[dominikz]

@Andrew78 To give a bit of background - the intention is to put the subwoofer so that the center of its driver is much closer to the side wall.

Ideally we'd want the center of the subwoofers front panel (where its driver is) to be less than 60cm from the nearest side wall, but even if we get the distance under 1m the response should improve. The same goes for the wall behind the subwoofer.

This would push the associated SBIR dip above the crossover and should resolve the null you get at 45Hz.

You can use this online SBIR calculator to see how the response nulls and peaks move depending on distances to nearby walls.

 

[Andrew78]

Looking at your layout, I believe the main problem is the location of the subwoofer.
The distance from the center of the subwoofer front-face to the hard wall on the right (where the WiFi is) is roughly 1,6m, correct?
If so, that probably explains the dip at ~45Hz.
View attachment 23638

Unfortunately this doesn't look correct. There should be much more bass, looking at your previous screenshots.
Did you keep the subwoofer calibration enabled and was the subwoofer out of standby prior to starting the calibration?

Hello everyone!

Yes I confirm the distance of 1.6 meters.
In any case I positioned the subwoofer inside the niche as you see in the photo.
I tried to use the SVS app giving it a slightly higher curve at low frequencies (as you see in the photo)
After that I redid the room correction and below are the results.
The situation seems to have improved, what do you think?

 

[dominikz]

Hello everyone!

Yes I confirm the distance of 1.6 meters.
In any case I positioned the subwoofer inside the niche as you see in the photo.
I tried to use the SVS app giving it a slightly higher curve at low frequencies (as you see in the photo)
After that I redid the room correction and below are the results.
The situation seems to have improved, what do you think?

First of all let me say that if you're happy with the result then it is for sure OK.

That being said, looking at the RC screenshots the current placement is not optimal for bass quality.

Due to the 1,6m distance of the sub to the far right wall you are losing a lot of bass energy around 45Hz. Unfortunately EQ will not be able to resolve deep nulls caused by acoustic cancellation.
To resolve this I'd suggest to at least temporarily try a different position for the sub - e.g. somewhere close to the left loudspeaker - and see if that gives some improvement.

Another issue is the dip between 80-100Hz in the right loudspeaker. That is likely also due to placement and for this I'd suggest to try and pull the Polks additional 20-40cm away from the cabinet behind them and see if that helps.

 

[Andrew78]

Ok, I redid the subwoofer layout according to your advice. Now it is in the corner of the other wall between the sofa and the wall.
I slightly widened the distance between the speakers (now it is 2.60 meters)
I moved the speakers forward another 10 cm.

Below is the new layout and the graphs.
The bass part seems better than before but the high part has the usual peak and I don't know how to reduce it