Wiim pro plus between avr and power amp

[cuddles147]

My current set up:

Ps5/android box/cd transport/ phono to phono project box to line in . Avr used as the brain of the system.

Avr to tv using earc.

Avr Preout to NAD power amp and powered subwoofer.

I'm interested in 2 options:

1. Wiim mini and cd player to dac to avr.

Or

2. The entire setup above but avr preouts to wiim pro plus input. To NAD amp using preouts. This way I have a dac and preamp.

Thoughts?

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I use a WiiM mini to a Marantz AVR using optical and then rca pre outs on the AVR to Fosi V3 mono amps. I try to avoid unnecessary digital to analogue and then analogue to digital conversions.

I’ve just had a Bobwire RCA1 switcher delivered which I’m planning to use to auto switch between a WiiM Ultra for music and AVR for movies and TV.

 

[cuddles147]

Interesting. Thanks I'll look into the bobwire rca

 

[tjheller]

I am late to the party on this thread but as I was looking for some answers to my own questions and I came across this thread and thought I would share. I've had good success placing the ultra between my AVR and external power amps. ( pre out AVR > Wiim Ultra > power amps > speakers)
However, this configuration causes a delay or echo between the front LR and the surround / center/ atmos channels. As a point of order front LR are set to large in the AVR so the ultra is handling bass management in this situation as well. The delay is rectified with the distance settings in the AVR. Pushing the front LR (set to large in the AVR) back to a farther distance causes a delay in the other speakers (surround / center / atmos) in the system and realigns the timing between the AVR and the speakers taking advantage of the DSP and bass management of the ultra. This was origionaly done using the RCA ins and RCA outs on the ultra. I have since experimented with another configuration using an external DAC between the Ultra and the power amps. This works well with the coax and optical out of the ultra to the DAC with little or no change to the AVR distance settings. Utilizing the USB out increases the delay considerably. I am sure this could be overcome with further adjustment of the AVR LR distance settings. Movie and TV watching will require an audio video sync but this is accomplished easily in may ways and is often necessary anyhow.

I've not seen anything about this particular use case and was hoping to have a broader conversation about puting the Wiim Ultra between an AVR and power amps. This configuration allows for home theater use with Dolby or DTS from an AVR with the benefits of the ultra's DSP as well as a dedicated 2 channel listening experience directly from the ultra without an AVR getting in the way. I realize not everyone is using an AVR with external power amps and not everyone is into home theater and dedicated 2 channel but I cant be alone in this.

 

[s3igell]

If you didn't catch it from the older posts, the configuration is usually not desired because you are running the Source Audio through multiple ADC-DAC conversion sets (ADC into your AVR - DAC out your AVR Pre-outs - ADC into the Ultra - then DAC out of either Ultra or follow-on external DAC into your Power Amp).

 

[90sNintendoKid]

If you didn't catch it from the older posts, the configuration is usually not desired because you are running the Source Audio through multiple ADC-DAC conversion sets (ADC into your AVR - DAC out your AVR Pre-outs - ADC into the Ultra - then DAC out of either Ultra or follow-on external DAC into your Power Amp).

I agree with @s3igell.

I use a Wiim mini with my Marantz AV Receiver via optical.

EQ and volume control and delays are done on my AVR.

I prefer to avoid DA to AD to DA conversions.

From reading AVR reviews on Audio Science Review, I've noticed the DAC performance on AVRs is not as good as stereo DACs. I realise there is a debate on whether this makes a difference and in my view adding unnecessary conversions in the audio chain won't help.

 

[tjheller]

If you didn't catch it from the older posts, the configuration is usually not desired because you are running the Source Audio through multiple ADC-DAC conversion sets (ADC into your AVR - DAC out your AVR Pre-outs - ADC into the Ultra - then DAC out of either Ultra or follow-on external DAC into your Power Amp).

I completely understand this concept. I’m simply using the DSP in the ultra for movie and TV viewing (like a mini dsp). The room correction, eq, bass management and so on are better in the ultra than my AVR. I know there is an additional AD - DA conversion for this but for movies and TV I really don’t notice a big difference. For me the benefits exceed the drawbacks. When enjoying 2 channel listening the AVR is not in the chain at all as it comes before the ultra so the additional conversion is mute. I’m not feeding any 2 channel sources through the AVR and with 9.2 channels of movie and tv blasting at me I can’t hear a difference with the additional conversion. The “2 channel music” uses the ultra as it was intended going directly to power amps or digital out to a DAC and then to the power amps. The DAC in the ultra is likely better than the DAC many AVRs, or at least in my AVR. I didn’t like the idea of going into my AVR at all, digital or analog, with the ultra because I was using external amps for the front LR anyway. I simply wanted to use the AVR as in input into the ultra and keep the other 7/5 channels in sync. When streaming, CD or turntable listening from the ultra I believe there are no extraneous conversions. I’m simply trying to get the most out of my budget friendly gear and blend a home theater setup with a dedicated 2 channel setup. The caveat is this only works if you are using an AVR along with an external power amp and also want a more pure 2 channel configuration. I use the external amps to save strain on the power supply in the AVR and have more power and dynamic range available for the center and surround speakers. Maybe I am the only nut job with a configuration like this but it works for me.

 

[tjheller]

I agree with @s3igell.

I use a Wiim mini with my Marantz AV Receiver via optical.

EQ and volume control and delays are done on my AVR.

I prefer to avoid DA to AD to DA conversions.

From reading AVR reviews on Audio Science Review, I've noticed the DAC performance on AVRs is not as good as stereo DACs. I realise there is a debate on whether this makes a difference and in my view adding unnecessary conversions in the audio chain won't help.

The DAC in your Marantz is likely better than the DAC in the mini so in your situation it makes a lot of sense. Your Marantz also likely has a better power configuration in general to my AVR so you’re not using an external power amp with it.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

The DAC in your Marantz is likely better than the DAC in the mini so in your situation it makes a lot of sense. Your Marantz also likely has a better power configuration in general to my AVR so you’re not using an external power amp with it.

I use Fosi v3 monos for the LCR and a Fosi v3 stereo for my surrounds in a 5.2 config.

I use a Wiim Mini and optical out because the Audio Science Review measurements indicate to me that it has an excellent optical output. I'm not sure if the dac in my AVR is a lot better than the Wiim Mini.

If I may ask, I'm wondering what AVR you have. I have a Marantz which is compatible with Audessey Multi EQX and I use Magic Beans to EQ and upload files using with Audessey app.

I noticed a massive difference with the Magic Beans EQ. For me, the bass was much improved at all volume levels whereas before I had to turn it up loud to hear decent bass.

 

[tjheller]

I use Fosi v3 monos for the LCR and a Fosi v3 stereo for my surrounds in a 5.2 config.

I use a Wiim Mini and optical out because the Audio Science Review measurements indicate to me that it has an excellent optical output. I'm not sure if the dac in my AVR is a lot better than the Wiim Mini.

If I may ask, I'm wondering what AVR you have. I have a Marantz which is compatible with Audessey Multi EQX and I use Magic Beans to EQ and upload files using with Audessey app.

I noticed a massive difference with the Magic Beans EQ. For me, the bass was much improved at all volume levels whereas before I had to turn it up loud to hear decent bass.

I have an entry level Yamaha RX-V6 which has Yamaha's YPAO room correction built into it. The RX-V6 has a 7 band equalizer for the 9 channels and a pitiful 2 band equalizer for the sub/LFE. It is however not 9.2 full time, it switches between front height and surround back automatically depending on content so in all actuality its 7.2 at any given time. Its very irritating but I did not realize how it actually worked before I made the purchase (shame on me for not doing more research) The bass management is a huge reason for me to want to put it in the middle of my chain. The crossover selection in the AVR is not to my liking. It is 40, 60, 80, 100, etc. In my situation I have dip in frequency responce between 48 and 60 hz the dip is compounded by the fact that my preffered crossover point (to my ears) between sub and main 52 hz. The parametric equalizer in the ultra allows me to bump at 55 hz just enough to balance out that dip. The parametric equalizer for the rest of the audible spectrum for home theater use is just a bonous. Add in the room correction, sub/LR timing. The other end of my chain currently consists of 4 x Fosi ZA3's in mono mode bi-amping a pair of Klipsch RP 8000s and 2 x Klipsch SPL 120s. I swap out the amp/amps for V3 monos or an Emotiva BasX but I have been really liking the ZA3s. Probably because they just look good with the orange knobs and the Klipsch speakers. I've not spent a huge ammount of money on any specific component of the system not trying to pair Sony Walkman with an Advance Paris, just trying to get the most out of all my budget stuff.

Using the previous configuration for the home theater and getting the AVR out of the way for 2 channel use just works for me. The internal DAC in my AVR just does not sound good to me. Using the DAC native in the ultra (sabre es9038) and RCA into the reciever (even in pure direct mode) uses the AVR as a preamp with lots of other electronics that could cause issues. Going from (the ultra to the amps to the speakers) or (ultra to an external dac [AK4493s] to the amps to the speakers) just seems simple to me. It sounds better to me. What sounds good to me is what really matters.

In your use case what you are doing probably sounds great to you and that is all that really matters for you! Your EQX & Beans are way more advanced than my YPAO.