WiiM Pro Plus line out to Face Audio Pro amp - Weak Sound

[jsluk]

Hi all,
Newbie got a lot of questions. I just received my WiiM Pro+ yesterday and set it up per the instructions. Currently have it connected to my Yamaha RXV-775 AV Receiver's pre-outs then to the Face Audio F1200TS pro amp. Watching TV with the SPDIF input, the sound appears rather low and lack dynamics even with my relatively high powered Face Audio. I have the receiver set to straight so that I am using the WiiM Pro+ DAC.

Questions.
1. How do I make the line out signal stronger entering the Yamaha?
2. Is it possible that the optical signal coming out of the TV is too weak to drive the Wiim?
3. Can I hook up some sort of signal booster coming out of the line out and directly connect to the power amp?
4. Streaming Spotify songs from my iPhone, again the sound is rather weak and lack dynamics. I don't have premium subscription with Spotify only the Standard. Any suggestions I would appreciate greatly.

Best regards.

 

[joffy1780]

Have you checked both your volume and line out level settings?
Make sure your line out level is set to 2v and you have either fixed volume set or if using the Wiim to control volume, make sure you haven't set your volume limit too low, as if you set the volume limit at 70%, for example, and you have the volume slider about halfway, you've only in effect set the volume to 35%.

 

[jsluk]

Make sure your line out level is set to 2v and you have either fixed volume set or if using the WiiM to control volume, make sure you haven't set your volume limit too low, as if you set the volume limit at 70%

Thanks for the suggestions. How do I checked output level at 2V and the volume limit? Do I use the WiiM app on my iPhone? I poked around but did not find such settings with the iPhone.

 

[joffy1780]

Yeah, you adjust via the Wiim app. I use the android app, but I assume it is more or less identical.
Press the little gear symbol to go into the device settings, then choose 'audio settings'.
Then you get the options of setting fixed volume, volume limit and line out level. As I say make sure you have the line out level set to 2Vrms. I'd be careful when adjusting the volume options given the power output of your amp!!

 

[jsluk]

joffy1780, thanks for the instructions. I checked and I have 2V RMS line out and limit fixed at 100%. The loudness is good now but it should be a lot more given that I have like 650 Watts RMS into 8 ohms (input sensitivity of 0.775 Volts). I don't think it is the WiiM but that my balanced pro amp could probably take more than the AV receiver could output. Just guessing because I have very limited experience.

One other question if you don't mind. The receiver has pure direct and a straight mode. I wonder which one that I should use? I have it currently set to straight with the hope that I could try out the WiiM's DAC.

 

[Mr Ee]

I think the 'problem' is likely to be the avr pre outs.

I have tv output (hdmi) into a Marantz AV, and also chromecast in the back of the Marantz.
The sound directly from the Marantz with either of those sources into some bookshelf speakers is of a decent volume.
Using the Marantz pre outs to my Hegel H190 with that input set to HT mode (i.e. essentially that input is fully amplified, like a power amp) and the volume into my hi fi speakers is significantly lower.
I had the same low volume issue connecting the Marantz AV to a Marantz PM8005 in power amp mode. I had to turn the AV volume up way, way more than normal to get anything like decent volume.

Like your question (3), I put a small active pre amp between the Marantz AV and the Hegel to boost the signal.

 

[jsluk]

Thanks Mr Ee. I tend to agree with your prognosis. I wonder how I could get into the Yamaha AV receiver to see if I could adjust the output. I don't know enough about this stuff to proceed. I guess that I could follow your lead and search for another pre-amp / booster before connecting to the power amp. Thanks.

 

[Mr Ee]

I'd be surprised if the AV had a menu option somewhere to control the pre out voltage, but I suppose you could always resort to extreme measures and read the manual.

I bought a Douk Audio

Mini Stereo Line Level Booster Amplifier Audio Preamp 20dB Gain Volume Control​

(sorry, that's what copy / paste did!)
from Amazon for A$57 just to try it out. Works fine, and it's only for tv / netflix...
Does it have any significant impact on sound quality? Don't know - all I can say is that Top Gun Maverick shook the house...

 

[jsluk]

I agree with checking the manual and not coming up with very much. It was pretty generic when I got the receiver many years ago. You have a lot of really high end gear. I will check into the Douk Audio unit. Thanks.

 

[Wiimer]

@jsluk

According to the RX-V775 specification, the pre-out output is

1V/1.2k ohm.

By the way, have you tried the V775 Volume trim yet? Volume trim in the options menu allows you to compensate for the volume difference between inputs.

For reference, this is the pre-out output of the current Yamaha machine.

RX-A2A: 1V/470 ohm (maximum output: 2V)
RX-A780: 1V/2.7k ohm (Maximum Output: 1.6V)

On these models, you can also set the volume for each scene in the scene settings.

 

[Wiimer]

One other question if you don't mind. The receiver has pure direct and a straight mode. I wonder which one that I should use? I have it currently set to straight with the hope that I could try out the WiiM's DAC.

If the WiiM and RX-V775 are connected with an RCA cable, you can usually avoid the amplifier's ADC and DAC by setting it to pure direct mode.

However, I couldn't find more information about the pure mode of the V775. It may differ slightly from the current specifications.

 

[jsluk]

Thanks Wiimer for your guidance. I always wondered what the volume trim stood for. Never used it but will adjust up to see if it makes a difference. My RX-V775 has both pure direct and straight mode. I tried both but my ears are not good enough to tell the difference.

I have really crappy RCA to XLR cables between the Yamaha and the power amp. I will get better quality ones and just go directly from the WiiM to to amp. Do you think that it will be better since the output on the WiiM Pro+ is 2 Volts RMS?

 

[Wiimer]

I have really crappy RCA to XLR cables between the Yamaha and the power amp. I will get better quality ones and just go directly from the WiiM to to amp. Do you think that it will be better since the output on the WiiM Pro+ is 2 Volts RMS?

I'm not sure about that, but I think connecting the Wiim directly to the power amplifier will increase the volume. If you're okay with the conversion cable you're using, you can try it.
* You must turn down the volume of the Wiim and amplifier before the test.

Ideally, you'd get a preamp with RCA inputs and XLR outputs.




This is an example of an inexpensive device, but such products can sometimes make noise.

 

[jsluk]

Wiimer. Thanks for the lead on the above converter switch. Do you have any experience with this Douk passive preamp? I am curious if it would introduce excess noise to the signal coming out of the WiiM?

Also, thanks so much regarding the volume trim adjustment. It sure help more regarding getting more sound out of my pro amp.

 

[Wiimer]

@jsluk

You are welcome.
Sorry, I haven't used it so I don't know the detailed specifications. If it is available on Amazon in your country, we recommend that you ask the seller beforehand.

With such products, white noise may be heard from the speakers when there is silence. If you ask in advance, you may be able to purchase with confidence. (you can create a valid reason for the return)

 

[Mr Ee]

Seems strange to have a pasive rca to xlr pre amp.
xlr outputs are normally 'hotter' than rca ( e.g. 4 volts rather than 2 volts)
Also note the description: 'xlr to rca', not rca to xlr, even though it does say 'stereo converter' too.
i.e. I'm not convinced this will work as desired. (Yet happy to be proved wrong!)

 

[jsluk]

Thanks Wiimer and Mr Ee for your suggestions. Currently, I have a rather low quality RCA to XLR patch cables from my AV receiver's RCA pre-out to the XLR in for the pro amp. One for each stereo channel. So the concept works but since I need more of these type of cables, I will buy some higher quality ones. I might even make some up myself if I am adventurous enough. I still want to connect the WiiM Pro+ directly to the power amp and see what happens.

I think I will explore the passive converter box further down the road if the need comes up. I am getting decent sound output now after the bumping up the AV receiver's volume trim adjustment. Also, not too crazy about introducing extra noise into the system. Best regards.

 

[Mr Ee]

bumping up the AV receiver's volume trim adjustment

Now, doesn't that read like it's increasing the trim, therefore reducing the volume?
Like when someone asks you to turn up the aircon!


Just messing with you... glad you found a usable solution.

 

[jsluk]

Hehe! I like your humor. How do you do the box thing quoting me from my earlier responses?

 

[Wiimer]

As Ee says, volume trim doesn't increase the power of the AVR. For example, it simply reduces the volume difference between the HDMI input and the RCA input.

Also, the Nobsound and Douk are devices with different purposes. Douk controls the gain, but Nobsound doesn't (exactly, this is not a preamp, It's a transformer).

For example, The Topping Pre90 is a good preamp with high sound quality, but it's little expensive. At this price, you may want to update your AVR.