WiiM Pro Preview

WiiM Support · Nov 19, 2022

Ralph L said:
3 Questions on the Handheld Remote for Saving Internet Stations:
1 - The current Wiim phone app can save up to 12 radio station presets, but the image of the the remote only has 4 numbered preset buttons. Will the remote be capable of saving more than 4 internet radio station presets... by possibly using multiple pressing of the 4 preset buttons, or even pressing a combination of those buttons?
2 - Will the remote be introduced at the same time as the Wiim Pro unit, or could that possibly be made available available earlier?
3 - I see that the Pro unit has a programmable capacitive touch preset button... is there a method where that button could be programmed to "scroll" through all of the 12 station presets that are presently accommodated by the Wiim phone app?

Hi Ralph, the remote will be released in late Dec as the separate listing. We'll have two SKUs for Pro (with or without remote). Currently, the preset on the WiiM Pro can be assigned as any one of the 12 presets, while the remote buttons correspond to the preset 1 to 4 of the App. By long pressing the preset button, you can save the "Now playing" as the preset. We have a plan to extend the capability of these preset buttons such that you can define some shortcut actions instead of playing presets. You can define this shortcut action as "grouping devices then play certain music", or "switch input source, set certain volume, apply EQ" etc on WiiM Home App. We would like to hear more ideas about your use cases from our community related to these shortcut buttons.

WiiM Support · Nov 19, 2022

Witterings said:
Will the Pro do multiroom UltraHD cast from the Amazon App from the day it's released?

Hi Witterings, yes, WiiM Pro supports multiroom UltraHD cast from the Amazon App from Day one due to its larger DRAM (than Mini). Please stay tuned!

Dpak · Nov 20, 2022

@WiiM Support , would Google Assistant be supported ?

Brantome · Nov 20, 2022

Dpak said:
@WiiM Support , would Google Assistant be supported ?

Does WiiM Mini support Google Assistant/Google Home?

Sorry, WiiM Mini currently doesn't support Google Home. Our next WiiM product WiiM Pro will support Google Assistant/Google Home.

faq-mini.wiimhome.com

Ralph L · Nov 20, 2022

WiiM Support said:
Hi Ralph, the remote will be released in late Dec as the separate listing. We'll have two SKUs for Pro (with or without remote). Currently, the preset on the WiiM Pro can be assigned as any one of the 12 presets, while the remote buttons correspond to the preset 1 to 4 of the App. By long pressing the preset button, you can save the "Now playing" as the preset. We have a plan to extend the capability of these preset buttons such that you can define some shortcut actions instead of playing presets. You can define this shortcut action as "grouping devices then play certain music", or "switch input source, set certain volume, apply EQ" etc on WiiM Home App. We would like to hear more ideas about your use cases from our community related to these shortcut buttons.

The ability to easily access saved radio stations (without the app) is obviously important to me and I appreciate your kind reply. Since you asked for suggestions... I can envision several ways of incorporating this feature. 1 - One method would be to program the capacitive buttons on the actual pro unit (and/or mini unit) as follows: Hold down the ">" button and then repeatedly press the up "+" or down "-" button. This would then allow the user to "scroll up" or "scroll down" through the entire list of the 12 saved station presets residing in the Wiim app. 2 - Another method would use the preset button on the remote unit in conjunction with the remote's up "+" or down "-" buttons... same idea whereby the user holds down the preset button and repeatedly presses the up or down buttons to scroll through the station presets that were previously saved into the Wiim phone app. The idea is to make changing stations easy and independent of needing to use a connected phone app. I am sure I am not alone in NOT having my phone continually turned on "24/7". At the end of a long day, I want to simply relax, disconnect from the world, and just enjoy music without interruption. Many thanks for asking... Best wishes... Ralph

Klipscher · Nov 20, 2022

Awesome news on pro, guess after a bit of testing it be available for purchase. I add the news to the head fi thread there a bunch members waiting on any new news.

Jim Shaw · Nov 20, 2022

WiiM Support said:
Hi Jim, sorry to hear you have problem with the WiiM Mini. Can you please help send a feedback via the WiiM Home App so we can take a look at your issues immediately？
Please also let us know what exact problem you have with the gapless. Regarding the analog output, it can be used as the input to your headphones. Based on your headphone spec., please adjust its output voltage before use with the WiiM App. It has four output options: 2 Vrms, 1 Vrms, 800 mVrms and 500 mVrms.

Thanks for the reply. I did send a feedback (I think) on the WiiM app, but it was weeks ago.

My complaint with gapless is that I play only classical, jazz, and instrumental solo material (via AMHD). Gapless just doesn't make sense with these. It is unnaturally disturbing to hear two jazz pieces or classical movements run together without the intended pause. Surely, not all your users are rockin' ta the beat of dance club tunes. Consider allowing a switch to turn gapless off.

When I get the chance, I'll send another WiiM app feedback, but it seems as though you've cured the cutting and gapless jumping halfway through a classical movement. I also had an issue with WiiM app (using AMHD) replaying the same album track repeatedly (and gaplessly!) on a Beethoven piano concerto by Jan Lisiecki on DG. I got an update yesterday and this hasn't recurred.

Despite my complaints, thanks for making and improving the Mini. Other than its limitation to 16-bit 41-48kHz on multi-room casting, I'm slowly becoming ever more reliant on my 2 WiiMs.

Regards,

Brantome · Nov 20, 2022

I would have thought only those albums that the streaming service marked as gapless would play gapless

Jim Shaw · Nov 20, 2022

Brantome said:
I would have thought only those albums that the streaming service marked as gapless would play gapless

Haha, explain that to Beethoven, Mozart, Liszt, Bach, et al. Apparently AMHD feels they fit in at your next rave. And they get bored part way through a movement, and just gaplessly jump to the next movement. Much easier to jive to... you don't lose the beat.

Classical disc jockeys are so hard to find.

Balthazar B · Nov 20, 2022

Brantome said:
I would have thought only those albums that the streaming service marked as gapless would play gapless

It wouldn't surprise me if Amazon has not tagged their tracks -- or at least some of them -- properly as gapless. Nor, particularly in the case of classical music (and maybe some foreign/ethnic and jazz) is the metadata correct and/or consistent. It's not as if building a superior music service streaming is their life's blood, as it is for, say, Qobuz or Idagio.

Jim Shaw · Nov 20, 2022

Pe

Balthazar B said:
It wouldn't surprise me if Amazon has not tagged their tracks -- or at least some of them -- properly as gapless. Nor, particularly in the case of classical music (and maybe some foreign/ethnic and jazz) is the metadata correct and/or consistent. It's not as if building a superior music service streaming is their life's blood, as it is for, say, Qobuz or Idagio.

Perhaps tracks should be assumed gapful(?) unless noted in metadata as gapless?
How many LPs, CDs, and tracks on files are recorded as intended to play gapless? Absolutely none. Gapless is the outlier.
I can understand that some rock fans might like a playlist that they deliberately ID as wanting to be gapless. Voila! You get your imaginary dance party.

Toke your blunt and carry on...

Brantome · Nov 21, 2022

Jim Shaw said:
Pe

Perhaps tracks should be assumed gapful(?) unless noted in metadata as gapless?
How many LPs, CDs, and tracks on files are recorded as intended to play gapless? Absolutely none. Gapless is the outlier.
I can understand that some rock fans might like a playlist that they deliberately ID as wanting to be gapless. Voila! You get your imaginary dance party.

Toke your blunt and carry on...

Lots of albums, particularly classical albums are recorded and meant to be played without gaps between the tracks - if I’m listening to Rachmaninov’s Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini, I want all 3 sections of the 24 variations to flow gaplessly into each other as written by the composer and as recorded. Or The Beatles Love album. Or several Pink Floyd albums. Etc etc. It’s not just for DJ mixes.

What is gapless playback? | Darko.Audio

And why does it matter?

darko.audio

Gapless playback - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Best Gapless NON-Live Album

Gapless fans: What is your nomination for the best gapless NON-Live Album? Mine is: The Beatles-Love Anyone that asks the reason for gapless, I would simply tell them to listen to "Love", then come back to me if you still have a question about gapless playback. I am "loving"...

www.head-fi.org

I’ll paraphrase what I said earlier - if an album was recorded without gaps as per the musician’s intention, then the streaming service should mark it as such and the playback software should play it as such.

Balthazar B · Nov 21, 2022

Jim Shaw said:
Perhaps tracks should be assumed gapful(?) unless noted in metadata as gapless?
How many LPs, CDs, and tracks on files are recorded as intended to play gapless? Absolutely none. Gapless is the outlier.
I can understand that some rock fans might like a playlist that they deliberately ID as wanting to be gapless. Voila! You get your imaginary dance party.

All tracks taken from an album should have gap-related information to preserve the actual spacing between tracks to replicate exactly what's on the pressing, whether it's a small bit of silence or the continuity of recorded sound, to enable proper playback. Then it's up to the streaming service (and the receiving device/application) to ensure that content is accurately reproduced on endpoints.

Someone will say, "Oh, but that will totally ruin the lives of poor DJs!"

Well, that's why God created crossfade. Or DJs can remove the gap metadata from the recordings that they play themselves if they want to eliminate all silence between the tracks. They pretty much have the power to do anything they want.

Jim Shaw · Nov 21, 2022

Brantome said:
Lots of albums, particularly classical albums are recorded and meant to be played without gaps between the tracks - if I’m listening to Rachmaninov’s Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini, I want all 3 sections of the 24 variations to flow gaplessly into each other as written by the composer and as recorded. Or The Beatles Love album. Or several Pink Floyd albums. Etc etc. It’s not just for DJ mixes.

What is gapless playback? | Darko.Audio

And why does it matter?

darko.audio

Gapless playback - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Best Gapless NON-Live Album

Gapless fans: What is your nomination for the best gapless NON-Live Album? Mine is: The Beatles-Love Anyone that asks the reason for gapless, I would simply tell them to listen to "Love", then come back to me if you still have a question about gapless playback. I am "loving"...

www.head-fi.org

I’ll paraphrase what I said earlier - if an album was recorded without gaps as per the musician’s intention, then the streaming service should mark it as such and the playback software should play it as such.

No. Just no. Those Rachminov tracks were recorded in the studio separately, possibly days apart. In a live concert, the movements would never be played gaplessly, end to end. Never, ever. Have you been to a classical concert? Even cantatas and requiems have gaps.
Jazz, the same. I cannot even imagine a jazz live concert where they play gaplessly. Never, ever. Have you been to a live jazz club and heard jazz gaplessly? A show at the Blue Note would be over in 30 minutes, played gaplessly, and the players would be breathless.
Maybe it works on Metallica, but would not at all on the Beatles.
Can you imagine a Broadway musical played live gaplessly? Even a concert version?
Or Blues, or opera, or solo vocal: imagine a whole Josh Groban album in one endless slug. Callas? Pavorotti? Sinatra? Adelle?

But then, there's EDM, which for the large part could be enjoyed even backward. Ah yes, there's the case for gapless. Keep those rocking motions going endlessly... I recall one pop record producer referring to his product as "baby-makin' music." The primary goal, keep those bodies in motion to the beat.
The default should be "gapful." That's the way most music was cut; that's the way most music is performed. Except EDM...

willisdb · Nov 21, 2022

Just coming across this through many a search. Looks like exactly what I've been trying to find. Something I can input my record player to and have it stream to my Google speakers throughout my house. Will be following this closely!

Jim Shaw · Nov 21, 2022

WiiM Team said:
Yes, the premium Hi-Fi DAC is a high-precision, low-jitter Burr-Brown PCM5121 DAC and supports up to 384 kHz/32-bit audio with 106 dB SNR. With a much larger bandwidth and more reliable connection provided by dual-band Wi-Fi than Bluetooth.

I asked elsewhere, a question that is answered here, thanks. Bring it on!

Brantome · Nov 21, 2022

Jim Shaw said:
No. Just no. Those Rachminov tracks were recorded in the studio separately, possibly days apart. In a live concert, the movements would never be played gaplessly, end to end. Never, ever. Have you been to a classical concert? Even cantatas and requiems have gaps.
Jazz, the same. I cannot even imagine a jazz live concert where they play gaplessly. Never, ever. Have you been to a live jazz club and heard jazz gaplessly? A show at the Blue Note would be over in 30 minutes, played gaplessly, and the players would be breathless.
Maybe it works on Metallica, but would not at all on the Beatles.
Can you imagine a Broadway musical played live gaplessly? Even a concert version?
Or Blues, or opera, or solo vocal: imagine a whole Josh Groban album in one endless slug. Callas? Pavorotti? Sinatra? Adelle?

But then, there's EDM, which for the large part could be enjoyed even backward. Ah yes, there's the case for gapless. Keep those rocking motions going endlessly... I recall one pop record producer referring to his product as "baby-makin' music." The primary goal, keep those bodies in motion to the beat.
The default should be "gapful." That's the way most music was cut; that's the way most music is performed. Except EDM...

Of course I’ve been to a classical concert and if the orchestra played that Rachmaninov piece, stopping at every variation (pausing between the sections is sometimes done), the audience would rightly walk out. You might wish to disagree , but please don’t be condescending.

Jim Shaw · Nov 21, 2022

Brantome said:
Of course I’ve been to a classical concert and if the orchestra played that Rachmaninov piece, stopping at every variation (pausing between the sections is sometimes done), the audience would rightly walk out. You might wish to disagree , but please don’t be condescending.

Don't get so defensive. However, I am a classical pianist. And I used to work on a crew that every week for a decade recorded the Cleveland Orchestra. My boss and I had the asset of mixing by reading a conductor's score. Movements and sections came with pauses.
.....
Gapless? Let's say it another way: IF a symphonic, jazz, blues, vocal, or solo instrumental movement, piece, or section normally gets its own track on an LP or CD, then there's an artistic reason for that. The reason may be a proper pause or a new track to allow selection at playback. No gapless wanted, needed or musically intended in compositions of such a nature.

Garage bands, metal, and EDM are different. I can understand why dancers and lovemakers may not wish to pause. But even Rap CDs and LPs come with separate tracks, eh?

Let us switch gapless off.

onlyoneme · Nov 21, 2022

Jim Shaw said:
Don't get so defensive. However, I am a classical pianist. And I used to work on a crew that every week for a decade recorded the Cleveland Orchestra. My boss and I had the asset of mixing by reading a conductor's score. Movements and sections came with pauses.
.....
Gapless? Let's say it another way: IF a symphonic, jazz, blues, vocal, or solo instrumental movement, piece, or section normally gets its own track on an LP or CD, then there's an artistic reason for that. The reason may be a proper pause or a new track to allow selection at playback. No gapless wanted, needed or musically intended in compositions of such a nature.

Garage bands, metal, and EDM are different. I can understand why dancers and lovemakers may not wish to pause. But even Rap CDs and LPs come with separate tracks, eh?

Let us switch gapless off.

Don't such tracks simply contain gaps in their digital form, when a gapless way is undesirable?

canard · Nov 22, 2022

Jim Shaw said:
Looking forward to seeing it for sale. I'll buy one as soon as you guys get the -- Gapless / skips to the next track / plays the same track on an album over and over -- fixed. Last night (11/18/22) I found my WiiM unusable for these causes.

Please let me turn off Gapless. I'm not running a dance club!
Out of sheer curiosity, can (and to what extent) can the analog output support headphones? (That feature would make it an ideal desktop player.)

but...
there can be gapless or not..
when you take a simple cd you don't ask the question...
but you evade evidence of tons of classical music being a continuous stream..
just an example ....the opera typically late 19th or 20th..
even the cd format was too short in many cases...
and yet you have indexes...
and it will be bad if not gapless

I find it unbelievable that you don't realize it...
and your tone is indeed offbeat...

a cd was "constructed" depending on the case...
streaming can be very problematic after all...

the gapless will be as useful as it is regrettable depending on the case...

streaming does not know how to make sense of things..."stupid "

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