Will the Wiim Ultra fix my problem?

[MrFancySweatPants]

Hello all, I have several problems with my current setup and am looking at the Wiim ultra as a possible solution but I would need some clarification if this is possible and what is needed to achieve my goals.

I currently have a Wiim Pro and a turntable connected to a stereo receiver going out to some floor-standing speakers. As it is now it does not sound all that great, which has to do with the room it is in. We moved to a new apartment and it is not furnished at the moment, so it is located in large room (kitchen/living room) with hard wood floors and loots of glass, no couch or rug or other furniture.

The other main problem is there are two children in the house, one of which is an infant who likes to grab speaker stands and shake them (Wharfedale Lintons), I am concerned with them falling on him, so they have to go.

I am thinking of separating my speakers from the rest of my system. I could have some active speakers placated on a large fairly deep shelf above the kitchen area and the rest of my system in another part of the room with a wireless connection to them.

This is what I was thinking of getting:

Wiim Ultra serving as a preamp/transmitter.

Connected to it would be a turntable (phono), a cd player(optical), I am toying with the idea of getting a cassette deck(RCA in and OUT) and probably a subwoofer, since I doubt I would be able to get sufficient bass from the bookshelves. It is also possible that I will have at some point a bluray connected from the HDMI audio out port to the HDMI port on the Ultra, but this is not that important, probably will not get much use.

On the shelf will be a pair of active loudspeakers, I am leaning towards a pair of Edifier S3000 Pro (I am open to suggestions), there must be some kind of wireless connection with the Wiim Ultra, I was thinking of reusing the Wiim Pro for the task, I read on this forum that that connection is not lossless but I take it it is still better then using bluetooth.

Will this work, is it possible to output the sound wirelessly and still use the subwoofer for instance? And what is the situation with the outputs, can I have for instance the RCA out active and also at the same time transmit the sound using Linkplay(I think that is the correct name)?

Thank you for all your help

 

[Mr Ee]

Welcome!

there are two children in the house ... so they have to go.

Harsh, but reasonable
(I'll read the rest now and see if I can actually be helpful...)

 

[Mr Ee]

a bluray connected from the HDMI audio out port to the HDMI port on the Ultra

Won't work.
The ultra's (and amps') hdmi is arc (pretty much just TVs), not hdmi audio.

there must be some kind of wireless connection with the Wiim Ultra, I was thinking of reusing the Wiim Pro for the task, I read on this forum that that connection is not lossless but I take it it is still better then using bluetooth.

You can group the ultra and pro and they will play the same music. A group of wiims will play 48khz max, so if the source is higher it's resampled; that might be where 'not lossless' comes from.

what is the situation with the outputs, can I have for instance the RCA out active and also at the same time transmit the sound using Linkplay

Yes, when wiims are in a group they can output as normal. It's not really that the ultra is transmitting the sound to the pro as an output as such, so its rca output (or whatever) still works.

 

[Wiimer]

Hello all, I have several problems with my current setup and am looking at the Wiim ultra as a possible solution but I would need some clarification if this is possible and what is needed to achieve my goals.

I currently have a Wiim Pro and a turntable connected to a stereo receiver going out to some floor-standing speakers. As it is now it does not sound all that great, which has to do with the room it is in. We moved to a new apartment and it is not furnished at the moment, so it is located in large room (kitchen/living room) with hard wood floors and loots of glass, no couch or rug or other furniture.

The other main problem is there are two children in the house, one of which is an infant who likes to grab speaker stands and shake them (Wharfedale Lintons), I am concerned with them falling on him, so they have to go.

I am thinking of separating my speakers from the rest of my system. I could have some active speakers placated on a large fairly deep shelf above the kitchen area and the rest of my system in another part of the room with a wireless connection to them.

This is what I was thinking of getting:

Wiim Ultra serving as a preamp/transmitter.

Connected to it would be a turntable (phono), a cd player(optical), I am toying with the idea of getting a cassette deck(RCA in and OUT) and probably a subwoofer, since I doubt I would be able to get sufficient bass from the bookshelves. It is also possible that I will have at some point a bluray connected from the HDMI audio out port to the HDMI port on the Ultra, but this is not that important, probably will not get much use.

On the shelf will be a pair of active loudspeakers, I am leaning towards a pair of Edifier S3000 Pro (I am open to suggestions), there must be some kind of wireless connection with the Wiim Ultra, I was thinking of reusing the Wiim Pro for the task, I read on this forum that that connection is not lossless but I take it it is still better then using bluetooth.

Will this work, is it possible to output the sound wirelessly and still use the subwoofer for instance? And what is the situation with the outputs, can I have for instance the RCA out active and also at the same time transmit the sound using Linkplay(I think that is the correct name)?

Thank you for all your help

Hi,

This is the configuration diagram I used earlier in another thread.


As you can see, 2 WiiMs can be used in a multi-room group for simultaneous playback in two rooms.

You can connect a cassette deck to the line out of the Ultra, but it cannot be output simultaneously with the other digital outputs. This is not a problem when connecting a cassette deck to the Ultra line-in.

If you want to use Blu-ray, you will need to connect it to a TV and connect the TV's HDMI ARC to the Ultra's HDMI; the Ultra's HDMI jack only allows audio input via ARC.

I am not sure I understand all of your questions.

 

[Wiimer]

Won't work.
The ultra's (and amps') hdmi is arc (pretty much just TVs), not hdmi audio.


You can group the ultra and pro and they will play the same music. A group of wiims will play 48khz max, so if the source is higher it's resampled; that might be where 'not lossless' comes from.

I don't know why, but your response showed up after I posted it. Chrome seems to be acting up lately.

 

[MrFancySweatPants]

Wow you guy work fast.

You can group the ultra and pro and they will play the same music. A group of wiims will play 48khz max, so if the source is higher it's resampled; that might be where 'not lossless' comes from.

Ok, so 48khz is pretty good I take it, I assume I will not perceive it as a loss of quality/fidelity.

Yes, when wiims are in a group they can output as normal. It's not really that the ultra is transmitting the sound to the pro as an output as such, so its rca output (or whatever) still works.

What happens when you plug in a pai of headphones, are the other outputs cut (RCA out)?

Wiimer​

Thank you for the diagram and the explanation.

What would happen if you have a source connected to the Wiim Pro, would you be able to hear it from the Wiim Ultra?

If you want to use Blu-ray, you will need to connect it to a TV and connect the TV's HDMI ARC to the Ultra's HDMI; the Ultra's HDMI jack only allows audio input via ARC.

This is interesting then what is the HDMI audio out for?

I plan on getting the Sony UBM X800M2, mainly for 4K disc playback, but that unit is also a SACD player and DVD audioplayer so I would have loved to connect it with the Wiim just to try it out. Maybe I still can, it will not be a permanent connection. I do not like the idea of having the TV on just to play music. The TV is not going to be connected to the Ultra, it will be connected to the Sony and a soundbar.

Yes, when wiims are in a group they can output as normal. It's not really that the ultra is transmitting the sound to the pro as an output as such, so its rca output (or whatever) still works.

Does that mean you need an internet connection to play music even if you are playing lets say a vinyl record?

​

 

[Mr Ee]

What happens when you plug in a pai of headphones, are the other outputs cut (RCA out)?

No.

You need to explicitly select the headphone output, and remember to turn down the volume before putting the phones on your head!
If the ultra is still in a group then the other wiims will still play.

What would happen if you have a source connected to the Wiim Pro, would you be able to hear it from the Wiim Ultra?

If the pro is the parent of the group then yes.
i.e. you choose which wiim is the one that is the source for the group and add other wiims to that one.

Does that mean you need an internet connection to play music even if you are playing lets say a vinyl record?

I'm pretty sure you need internet to set up the wiims, but I'm also pretty sure that you only need your home network up (not necessarily internet) for local music and groups to work.
I'm sure someone will confirm... I'll be lynched if I turn off the internet to try it!

 

[Mr Ee]

Ok, so 48khz is pretty good I take it, I assume I will not perceive it as a loss of quality/fidelity.

I could trot out my normal joke about vinyl and how 48khz could possibly cause a loss of quality, but I won't.
In theory, 48khz is all you need. In practise, 48khz is all you need too
tbh, it should be plenty.

 

[harkpabst]

This is interesting then what is the HDMI audio out for?

I plan on getting the Sony UBM X800M2, mainly for 4K disc playback, but that unit is also a SACD player and DVD audioplayer so I would have loved to connect it with the Wiim just to try it out. Maybe I still can, it will not be a permanent connection. I do not like the idea of having the TV on just to play music. The TV is not going to be connected to the Ultra, it will be connected to the Sony and a soundbar.

Just believe @Mr Ee and @Wiimer: It won't work.

The HDMI on the Ultra is an input that works with the Audio Return Channel (ARC) supported by all TVs since more than a decade. The expected setup is to connect sources like BluRay players to your TV and then connect the TV to the Ultra (like you would connect an AVR). Any sound that would normally be played back by the TV, be it from BR, an internal tuner or some external set-top-box will be send to the Ultra by the TV.

HDMI ARC uses two dedicated pins on the HDMI connector and they are different from those pins sending audio e.g. from your BR player to your TV. No matter how you put it, connecting anything but an ARC capable TV to the HDMI socket on the Ultra will not work.

Ok, so 48khz is pretty good I take it, I assume I will not perceive it as a loss of quality/fidelity.

That'll be fine. Not the best the Ultra is capable of, but it will certainly be good enough (unless you can hear above 24 kHz).

Does that mean you need an internet connection to play music even if you are playing lets say a vinyl record?

The "wireless" portion of your target setup has been recommended to be handled by a WiiM group. WiiM groups work over your network connection, most commonly Wi-Fi. If there's no WiFi/Ethernet connection, there cannot be a WiiM group. So, strictly speaking Internet connection is not required for this single step, but running a network preceiver like the Ultra without Internet access makes not much sense.

For me it is still unclear how you would want to connect the S3000 Pro. Are you looking for a wireless connection to the speakers?

 

[MrFancySweatPants]

For me it is still unclear how you would want to connect the S3000 Pro. Are you looking for a wireless connection to the speakers?

I was thinking of using the wiim pro for that (optical out to optical in). Seems to me that this is the best option, wireless toslink is not a thing, Bluetooth out of the Ultra is SBC if I am not mistaken.

I could trot out my normal joke about vinyl and how 48khz could possibly cause a loss of quality, but I won't.
In theory, 48khz is all you need. In practise, 48khz is all you need too
tbh, it should be plenty.

Never really looked into it, I was assuming this was some form of compression, like with mp3-s, 320kb is good, 192 is ok, below that it is not worth it.

That'll be fine. Not the best the Ultra is capable of, but it will certainly be good enough (unless you can hear above 24 kHz).

I think that even when i was a child i could not hear that.

 

[Burnside]

Never really looked into it, I was assuming this was some form of compression, like with mp3-s, 320kb is good, 192 is ok, below that it is not worth it.

48khz is shorthand for 24/48 (bit depth of 24 and a sample rate of 48kHz) which can accommodate a lossless stream up to a bitrate of 2304kbps, way beyond any compressed MP3 which as you say is typically 320kbps or less.

 

[MrFancySweatPants]

If the pro is the parent of the group then yes.
i.e. you choose which wiim is the one that is the source for the group and add other wiims to that one.

Can you have more then one group and switch between them? As in group A where ultra si parent and pro si child, and group B where pro is parent and ultra is child?

Just believe @Mr Ee and @Wiimer: It won't work.

The HDMI on the Ultra is an input that works with the Audio Return Channel (ARC) supported by all TVs since more than a decade. The expected setup is to connect sources like BluRay players to your TV and then connect the TV to the Ultra (like you would connect an AVR). Any sound that would normally be played back by the TV, be it from BR, an internal tuner or some external set-top-box will be send to the Ultra by the TV.

HDMI ARC uses two dedicated pins on the HDMI connector and they are different from those pins sending audio e.g. from your BR player to your TV. No matter how you put it, connecting anything but an ARC capable TV to the HDMI socket on the Ultra will not work.

Ok,I believe, I am dropping it. Seems to me it is quite a hassle to play a SACD, new players are super expensive and the old ones are broken by now, and still expensive. This whole thing with playback on a DVD player is off-putting.

 

[Smartplug]

@Wiimer has helped many users around here and very knowledgeable on wiim as well as very nice man. @Burnside one of the most active around here and very knowledgeable on home audio and technical detail. This is the reason I keep reading the tread because of them.

 

[Wiimer]

Can you have more then one group and switch between them? As in group A where ultra si parent and pro si child, and group B where pro is parent and ultra is child?

The recent addition of persistent groups to Ultra should make that possible. However, that feature has not yet been added to Pro, so we will have to wait for an update.

Also, I have heard that in the future, persistent groups will no longer distinguish between master and slave. When that happens, switching between groups will no longer be necessary.

 

[hgo58]

Can you have more then one group and switch between them? As in group A where ultra si parent and pro si child, and group B where pro is parent and ultra is child?

Yes. Multiple groups can be created (The Pro still need an update for this, coming soon). You can also dynamically link and unlink the devices.

Ok,I believe, I am dropping it. Seems to me it is quite a hassle to play a SACD, new players are super expensive and the old ones are broken by now, and still expensive. This whole thing with playback on a DVD player is off-putting.

DVD players do also generally have worse audio performance than dedicated CD players, as they are focused on video. I have tried to play SACD via optical output to WiiM Ultra and couldn't hear any difference compared to the same album streaming.

 

[Mr Ee]

Also, I have heard that in the future, persistent groups will no longer distinguish between master and slave. When that happens, switching between groups will no longer be necessary.

Yep, I recall that too and did think about mentioning it.
Makes sense for streaming, but not sure how that would work for physical inputs on one wiim being sent to others - at that point there has to be a single parent.
(I used to call them Master and Slave, but then went all PC )
And now I have Depeche Mode in my head.
And now you all do too.

 

[MrFancySweatPants]

@Wiimer has helped many users around here and very knowledgeable on wiim as well as very nice man. @Burnside one of the most active around here and very knowledgeable on home audio and technical detail. This is the reason I keep reading the tread because of them.

I meant no offense, I am very grateful to all of you. I see that this is a very active community filled with people with an obvious love for the company's products.

I think Wiim as a company also deserve laudits, they for instance addet room correction to the Pro via software update after I bought it, I can not think of another company that is so active in improving their existing products and not only trying to sell you the next best thing.

The recent addition of persistent groups to Ultra should make that possible. However, that feature has not yet been added to Pro, so we will have to wait for an update.

Also, I have heard that in the future, persistent groups will no longer distinguish between master and slave. When that happens, switching between groups will no longer be necessary.

Good to know, it is not something I need at the moment but it might come in handy.

I have tried to play SACD via optical output

I thought this was not possible, my understanding is that SACD is only output via RCA, the optical output is there for the CD stream.

 

[MrFancySweatPants]

(I used to call them Master and Slave, but then went all PC )
And now I have Depeche Mode in my head.
And now you all do too.

Yep

 

[hgo58]

I thought this was not possible, my understanding is that SACD is only output via RCA, the optical output is there for the CD stream.

Maybe it's only the CD layer that I get? I think 2ch unprotected signal goes out as PCM (coax, not optical in my case).

 

[Wiimer]

Makes sense for streaming, but not sure how that would work for physical inputs on one wiim being sent to others - at that point there has to be a single parent.

To be honest, I can't yet think of much benefit other than the ability to increase input via multiple WiiMs.

Currently, the parent device cannot be removed from a group, so the group must be reorganized manually.

For example, if a group contains 3 WiiMs (A,B,C) and the parent is A, you cannot remove only A from the group, so you must delete the group and create a new group with B and C.
(Yes, suppose you want to continue listening to the album you are playing in rooms B and C only.)

At this time, music continues to play on A. This must be paused and a new music playback must be started in groups B and C.

When the parent is removed in the persistent group, you can switch groups seamlessly without stopping the music. (I hope so...)

I must confess that my head is spinning as I write this. So don't worry if you feel like I'm saying weird things .