4K blu ray audio quality with Panasonic UB820 and WiiM Ultra

ryry

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My current setup is as follows:

- Panasonic UB820 4K blu ray player (and other digital sources) connected via HDMI to LG CX TV
- LG CX sends audio via HDMI eARC to WiiM Ultra
- WiiM sends audio to KEF LS50 II via optical

I’m trying to get my head around how to maximise audio quality output from the Panasonic UB820. It actually has multiple HDMI outputs, one for video + audio and one for audio only.

Is it fine to just use the HDMI video+audio output from the Panasonic UB820 to the LG CX and onwards to the WiiM? Or will the WiiM only supporting ARC rather than eARC result in some kind of reduction in audio quality from the UB820?
 
Ideally you want to use a AVR so it does proper multi channel decoding, bass management, time alignment of speakers and sub, room EQ of speakers and sub.

I've found native multi channel tracks have better quality audio than decoded and downmixed audio, and also much better than than just PCM. It just lacks the dynamic range. You also lose the dedicated .1 LFE track.

Get a AVR feed that from your TV and/or BD player and for movies, using your Wiil Ultra for the L/R speakers, and get the rest of the speakers and sub.

Do the usual AVR + stereo amp setup method.
 
My setup is only 2.1 and the KEFs are active speakers. I was expecting that the Ultra would be able to handle audio decoding, bass management, time alignment and room EQ. Is that not the case?
 
It can't do dts/DD decoding and down mixing it doesn't have licenses for that.

It'll do things like Eq and time alignment.

It'll just accept pcm which means lose the .1 life mix
 
Would I be better off just sending HDMI video from the UB820 to the TV, and then HDMI audio from the UB820 directly to the KEFs? I currently have my sub connected to the Ultra but I could have it connected to the KEFs instead.

The only downside is I would have to adjust volume for the KEFs directly when watching a movie on the UB820 rather than via the Ultra like every other input, but if it means better audio quality and LFE handling then I’m ok with that.
 
Would I be better off just sending HDMI video from the UB820 to the TV, and then HDMI audio from the UB820 directly to the KEFs? I currently have my sub connected to the Ultra but I could have it connected to the KEFs instead.

The only downside is I would have to adjust volume for the KEFs directly when watching a movie on the UB820 rather than via the Ultra like every other input, but if it means better audio quality and LFE handling then I’m ok with that.
I doubt that the KEFs support DD, DD+, or DTS so it would just be PCM whereas the Ultra does at least support DD. With LFE, there seems to be no definitive argument as to what happens to .1 LFE during downmixes. I would stick to the current setup and maybe compare the Panasonic, LG, and Wiim doing the downmixing.
 
For a it's best to get dedicated avr or in your case a avr with pre outs or a av pre amp.

Stereo can work for movies but highly recommended you have bass management. but it's best to be able to natively decode the formats .

In my bedroom system I have a avr even though it's just atrroeoy that way I get all legacy DD and dts decoding plus Dolby and dts hd.
 
For active speakers adding an external Receiver/Amp is quite a hassle and yet another box I guess, I also use active speakers and it's unfortunate but "Movie"-audio does suffer a bit since down-mixing everything, but for me it's good enough.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does the down-mixing not include LFE? it's basically just low end frequencies that usually are sent to Sub out, you could still send those to you sub out via Wiim or your active KEF's I would think. See link: https://www.avsforum.com/posts/23552168/

Also Blu Ray Audio like "DTS HD", "Dolby TrueHD" and "Dolby Atmos will be down-mixed by the Panasonic UB820 and anything you get out of it will be hard dependent on how it performs that.
 
- Panasonic UB820 4K blu ray player (and other digital sources) connected via HDMI to LG CX TV
What type of content do you play through this sources? Mainly multi-channel programme material?
Are you interested in adding 3 more speakers to your room and a far more complicated setup?

If the answer to these question is no then just stick with your setup.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does the down-mixing not include LFE? it's basically just low end frequencies that usually are sent to Sub out, you could still send those to you sub out via Wiim or your active KEF's I would think.
Short version:
It depends. The WiiM Ultra should preserve the LFE when fed the multi-channel signal through HDMI ARC. If the UB820 is used to downmix a stereo signal to the CX TV or if the CX TV performs the downmix, then the LFE is probably not included.

Long version:
This is one tricky topic. The LFE channel is not really "the subwoofer channel", there's no such thing. :) The LFE - as the name implies - contains (additional) low frequency effects, only, augmenting the original audio (which does contains bass information).

Right from the link you posted, here's an excerpt from Dolby's 5.1-Channel Production Guidelines:
What is the difference between the LFE channel and the subwoofer signal? The LFE channel is a separate, limited frequency bandwidth signal created by the mixing engineer and delivered alongside the main channels in the mix.
In professional theatres this content is reproduced by subwoofers, but that doesn't have to be the case. The content of the LFE channel can actually be rerouted to regular speakers. The interesting question is how and when that happens

Next paragraph:
The subwoofer signal is created in the decoder as needed for the particular speaker complement in use, using crossover filters. This signal is created using bass management, and all Dolby Digital decoders perform this function. Through bass management, a subwoofer signal may comprise bass from any channel or combination of channels - typically bass frequencies from channels being replayed on small speakers are directed to the subwoofer speaker.
This doesn't really describe how the LFE is handled, but the opposite: How bass information from all channels (including the LFE) can be send to the subwoofer. This does furhter explain how the LFE channel and the subwoofer signal are different, though.

Here's another snippet:
Another benefit to using the LFE channel when carrying explosive bass signals is that smaller stereo systems may not be able to handle such high levels of deep bass without significant stress. Since the Dolby Digital downmix process discards the LFE signal, these low-frequency signals will not present any difficulty for these smaller systems. The remaining portions of the bass frequencies delivered by the main channels will convey the essential aspects of the performance when listening to the downmix.
Many people - explicitely including myself - have always read this like Dolby sepcs would require the LFE to be dropped from any downmix to 2-channel audio. But, it's a long known fact that many processors don't do this. According to the experts this was just Dolby's sloppy wording. What they've been really referring to was the way their very own Dolby Digital decoder (a hardware product used e.g. in DVD players) did it. So, when a multi-channel signal is fed into any other processor there's no reason to assume that the LFE would be dropped, at all.

Finally, here is what @WiiM Support stated on this topic regarding the WiiM Ultra and the WiiM Amp Pro:
Both products support Dolby Audio and will downmix 5.1 audio to 2.1 when using a single device. We are developing a feature to output satellite channels to separate speakers, effectively creating a 4.1 system when the devices are grouped together.
This is a little sloppy as well, as it seems to imply that the .1 LFE might be routed to the subwoofer output, only. As noted above, there's no need to do so. I take from this that the WiiM Ultra does include the LFE when creating the output signal. Official confirmation would be nice, of course.
 
What type of content do you play through this sources? Mainly multi-channel programme material?
Are you interested in adding 3 more speakers to your room and a far more complicated setup?
The other digital sources are PS5 and Mac Mini. Overall I’m mostly using the speakers for streaming music from Tidal. I’m not interested in adding more speakers to this setup at the moment as I’m in a relatively small apartment. One day I’m intending to build a dedicated home theatre, but that will likely be an entirely separate system in a different house.

I have always felt that the subwoofer in my current system was underperforming and didn’t have as much punch as I remember my old 5.1 system (with AVR) had from 15 years ago. I guess the downmixing process probably explains a lot of that.
 
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