A Draconian Decision

What are we fitting to the room? How do we know, if we're sat in the room, that roomfit makes it sound how it would if we're not in the room? Because we're still in the room.

Furthermore, where is the room, that roomfit is correcting my room to? How do I know if roomfit is adjusting my room so it sounds like the room that the music is supposed to be in, if I don't know where the room is? I suspect I have never been, or ever will be in the room that roomfit is adjusting my room to. So how do I know?

Or is roomfit adjusting my room so it sounds like it's not in a room? What am I in? Outside?, at the doctor's?, in space?
 
What are we fitting to the room? How do we know, if we're sat in the room, that roomfit makes it sound how it would if we're not in the room? Because we're still in the room.

Furthermore, where is the room, that roomfit is correcting my room to? How do I know if roomfit is adjusting my room so it sounds like the room that the music is supposed to be in, if I don't know where the room is? I suspect I have never been, or ever will be in the room that roomfit is adjusting my room to. So how do I know?

Or is roomfit adjusting my room so it sounds like it's not in a room? What am I in? Outside?, at the doctor's?, in space?
Is this Taylor's new song?
What wonderful lyrics.🤗
 
After basically trying roomfit with three different devices in three different rooms every time it is updated I also have decided to just leave it off. Maybe my ears and brain have been corrupted by 55 years of listening to music my way. Then I had a thought.......Isn't that the idea?

I also came to realize that some songs from certain artists sound better no matter what I do. Streaming has magnified this problem because I very seldom listen to entire albums anymore. It's usually random Playlists. So the term all things being equal never really applies.
 
Equalizer, Roomfit? My honor would be tarnished 😆. Everything set to zero and it has to sound good. That's what my uncle (guitarist in a beat band in the 60s) taught me in my childhood with my first stereo in the mid-70s 😃. That's how it is and that's how it will stay.
Is that what he told the sound engineer at live gigs as well 😉
 
What are we fitting to the room? How do we know, if we're sat in the room, that roomfit makes it sound how it would if we're not in the room? Because we're still in the room.

Furthermore, where is the room, that roomfit is correcting my room to? How do I know if roomfit is adjusting my room so it sounds like the room that the music is supposed to be in, if I don't know where the room is? I suspect I have never been, or ever will be in the room that roomfit is adjusting my room to. So how do I know?

Or is roomfit adjusting my room so it sounds like it's not in a room? What am I in? Outside?, at the doctor's?, in space?
You are overthinking it 🤣
 
Prominent? Really? What do you think they have sold more because of this forum? 20, 25?
I've known about these little microphones for several years... and honestly, they weren't really promoted much except by a few users of certain discreet Android apps... but it seems to me that, given the success of very mainstream Wiim products and the increased visibility of Roomfit, these little Dayton microphones are becoming useful... (some will realize that they can be used with computers and REW, as a rather affordable solution... as an alternative to UmiK, etc.) (I have nothing to do with Dayton and use other types of mesureaments microphones...)


30? 32?...33? :cool:

"mise en avant d un produit qui etais discret jusque la"
 
  • Haha
Reactions: JAB
Anyway... the difficulty here is to design a correct and easy solution that isn't aimed at expert users... and that's a real challenge... (this microphone fits into this approach...), sometimes it will be satisfactory... sometimes not... but for a low cost and time...


But more experienced users will, I imagine, go for more complex approaches like REW, sound cards, and "heavier" microphones, which brought the data back into the PEQ of the Wiim.
(Just to be clear... I don't use Roomfit... ;-) but subwoofers processed via DSP and measurements well before I knew about Wiim..)
 
Last edited:
To the OP. How dare you simply sit and enjoy the music lol. I prescribe an intense course of ASR as treatment: if that doesn't stop you from listening to and enjoying your music, then nothing will.
Merry Christmas everyone!
 
Indeed... and it's simple...
( if that's not the case... just move from one apartment, house, igloo, hut, etc.... easy...)
:cool:
;-)
RoomFit: Some people find it helpful to use. Personally, I don't think it's necessary, as I'm very happy with my stereo sound in two different rooms and don't see any room for improvement.
I've always considered equalizers to be a useless gimmick. If a production sounds particularly good, I'm happy. If not, I go with it and accept what the producer had in mind... Neither, I don't start filtering the reverb out of the drums in all the 80s productions...😉
 
One area where the effectiveness of correction is truly relevant is... headphones...
I agree with you on this point, at least when it comes to newer Bluetooth headphones. Unfortunately, some devices with DSP come with a terrible sound profile straight from the factory (young people seem to love bass, bass, and more bass), making adjustment almost inevitable.
 
I agree with you on this point, at least when it comes to newer Bluetooth headphones. Unfortunately, some devices with DSP come with a terrible sound profile straight from the factory (young people seem to love bass, bass, and more bass), making adjustment almost inevitable.
I invite you to look into this subject as well...you'll see that it's unrelated to the Bluetooth stories, etc...
 
Let me start by saying that if people are perfectly happy with the sound of their system there's no need to change anything at all. I'm 100% on board with that.

But I believe there's still value in explaining how things work and why - regardless whether someone decides to apply it.

The problem might simply be that we gave the very clumsy impression that a simple solution, "thanks to modernity," can solve complex situations... product aimed at the general public..


Indeed, we need to "lend a hand," as you so often do, and let everyone experiment... without drawing hasty conclusions.
:oops:

Doing it remains complicated and not very successful...and doing it "simply"...even less so...
I'd say people seem to expect both too much, and too little from RoomFit.

Part of it is I guess due to folklore, marketing, and hype; and partly due to how many other gadgets in our life are simple to use, but vastly complex under the hood.

In the end RoomFit is a tool for a very specific usecase and you can't blame it if it doesn't solve every problem - just how you can't call a screwdriver useless because it's not good at e.g. sawing.

So the "problem" with RoomFit (and any other digital room correction tool, really) is that they can't solve every acoustic issue (they actually only solve one), plus they rely heavily on other factors being optimized first (like speaker placement). As such I'm not surprised at all that some people struggle to make RoomFit work well for them. I'm very sympathetic to that.

However, after having lead a good few people through this optimization process, I have to say that I'm fully convinced that EQ for room correction (or to be more precise: for bass correction) could improve sound quality in the vast majority of cases, assuming placement and sub integration is optimized first, and that correction attributes are tuned to the environment.

IME once you experience resonance-free bass, it is hard to go back to the room-resonance-ridden bass response most of us lived with for years.

What are we fitting to the room? How do we know, if we're sat in the room, that roomfit makes it sound how it would if we're not in the room? Because we're still in the room.

Furthermore, where is the room, that roomfit is correcting my room to? How do I know if roomfit is adjusting my room so it sounds like the room that the music is supposed to be in, if I don't know where the room is? I suspect I have never been, or ever will be in the room that roomfit is adjusting my room to. So how do I know?

Or is roomfit adjusting my room so it sounds like it's not in a room? What am I in? Outside?, at the doctor's?, in space?
That was funny and I enjoyed it. :)

"RoomFit" is perhaps a misnomer - what it is meant to do, however, is remove bass resonances which happen due to the interaction of the speaker with the room.
These are different in every room, and for every placement, but it is not uncommon to have one or more sharp bass peaks which are >10dB above average response, as well as notches that are >10dB below it.

That means that a fundamental frequency of e.g. one note played by the bass guitar can subjectively end up being 2x or even 4x louder that another note in the same scale, depending whether they align with the response peak or notch.

This can be very audible.

If placement is optimized and if RoomFit is applied correctly the result should be that relative loudness of individual bass notes will be preserved as recorded - at least at the main listening position.

Note that studio control rooms have pretty smooth bass responses as well. Room EQ combined with proper placement can bring that kind of response to our home HiFi systems.

Above the bass region the story changes - but I won't go into that here. Suffice to say that room correction EQ should be limited to bass frequencies only.

RoomFit: Some people find it helpful to use. Personally, I don't think it's necessary, as I'm very happy with my stereo sound in two different rooms and don't see any room for improvement.
I've always considered equalizers to be a useless gimmick. If a production sounds particularly good, I'm happy. If not, I go with it and accept what the producer had in mind... Neither, I don't start filtering the reverb out of the drums in all the 80s productions...😉
Creative use of EQ (e.g. the popular smiley-face curve) is something very different to room EQ.

Room EQ can actually bring you closer to what the producer had in mind - since the producer likely made the recording while listening to room-resonance-free bass in the studio control room.

But again - good results with room EQ are unfortunately not guaranteed for everyone, not until we have a system which doesn't require a significant level of expertise from the user.
IMHO we're not there yet with any automated room correction, sadly!
 
Let me start by saying that if people are perfectly happy with the sound of their system there's no need to change anything at all. I'm 100% on board with that.

But I believe there's still value in explaining how things work and why - regardless whether someone decides to apply it.


I'd say people seem to expect both too much, and too little from RoomFit.

Part of it is I guess due to folklore, marketing, and hype; and partly due to how many other gadgets in our life are simple to use, but vastly complex under the hood.

In the end RoomFit is a tool for a very specific usecase and you can't blame it if it doesn't solve every problem - just how you can't call a screwdriver useless because it's not good at e.g. sawing.

So the "problem" with RoomFit (and any other digital room correction tool, really) is that they can't solve every acoustic issue (they actually only solve one), plus they rely heavily on other factors being optimized first (like speaker placement). As such I'm not surprised at all that some people struggle to make RoomFit work well for them. I'm very sympathetic to that.

However, after having lead a good few people through this optimization process, I have to say that I'm fully convinced that EQ for room correction (or to be more precise: for bass correction) could improve sound quality in the vast majority of cases, assuming placement and sub integration is optimized first, and that correction attributes are tuned to the environment.

IME once you experience resonance-free bass, it is hard to go back to the room-resonance-ridden bass response most of us lived with for years.


That was funny and I enjoyed it. :)

"RoomFit" is perhaps a misnomer - what it is meant to do, however, is remove bass resonances which happen due to the interaction of the speaker with the room.
These are different in every room, and for every placement, but it is not uncommon to have one or more sharp bass peaks which are >10dB above average response, as well as notches that are >10dB below it.

That means that a fundamental frequency of e.g. one note played by the bass guitar can subjectively end up being 2x or even 4x louder that another note in the same scale, depending whether they align with the response peak or notch.

This can be very audible.

If placement is optimized and if RoomFit is applied correctly the result should be that relative loudness of individual bass notes will be preserved as recorded - at least at the main listening position.

Note that studio control rooms have pretty smooth bass responses as well. Room EQ combined with proper placement can bring that kind of response to our home HiFi systems.

Above the bass region the story changes - but I won't go into that here. Suffice to say that room correction EQ should be limited to bass frequencies only.


Creative use of EQ (e.g. the popular smiley-face curve) is something very different to room EQ.

Room EQ can actually bring you closer to what the producer had in mind - since the producer likely made the recording while listening to room-resonance-free bass in the studio control room.

But again - good results with room EQ are unfortunately not guaranteed for everyone, not until we have a system which doesn't require a significant level of expertise from the user.
IMHO we're not there yet with any automated room correction, sadly!
Luckily there are people like you who explain it much better than guys like me...
hihi
;-))
 
Back
Top