Apple Music in high res on my Ultra

[adias]

I have no issue with you mentioning other potential variables (power supply quality, cable/connector quality, analog circuit quality, etc.), as once you get into the analog domain, I can agree that as yet there are some things that cannot be measured or explained.

But bit-perfect is bit-perfect.

You can even explain that there is poor clocking or jitter, I’m okay with that (even if it is arguable).

But bit-perfect is bit-perfect.

Or it’s not.

And that’s the topic at hand.

-Ed

OK it has been measured as bit perfect. So it is in fact bit perfect.

 

[adias]

I have no issue with you mentioning other potential variables (power supply quality, cable/connector quality, analog circuit quality, etc.), as once you get into the analog domain, I can agree that as yet there are some things that cannot be measured or explained.

But bit-perfect is bit-perfect.

You can even explain that there is poor clocking or jitter, I’m okay with that (even if it is arguable).

But bit-perfect is bit-perfect.

Or it’s not.

And that’s the topic at hand.

-Ed

And you are right! My setup had a glitch favoring one pipeline over the other. Once resolved the issue, the Ultra volume matched to Mac/Audirvana, they sound the same playing Qobuz.

I apologize for raising a doubt, unaware of a system issue. I should have checked more carefully.

 

[EddNog]

And you are right! My setup had a glitch favoring one pipeline over the other. Once resolved the issue, the Ultra volume matched to Mac/Audirvana, they sound the same playing Qobuz.

I apologize for raising a doubt, unaware of a system issue. I should have checked more carefully.

We’re all human. I make similar mistakes all the time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-Ed

 

[adias]

We’re all human. I make similar mistakes all the time. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-Ed

Thank you! And on topic… Apple Music has tech issues and I do not see bit perfect with that, instead transcoding is often taking place. Still a great music collection with great curation. Qobuz is technically very good and now with Connect made a great leap forward.

 

[Burnside]

And you are right! My setup had a glitch favoring one pipeline over the other. Once resolved the issue, the Ultra volume matched to Mac/Audirvana, they sound the same playing Qobuz.

I apologize for raising a doubt, unaware of a system issue. I should have checked more carefully.

Cheers

 

[klaus99]

And on topic… Apple Music has tech issues and I do not see bit perfect with that, instead transcoding is often taking place.

Now that you mention it: I've also noticed that Apple Music often changes the sample rate in the middle of a song. That really makes you think.

 

[Burnside]

Now that you mention it: I've also noticed that Apple Music often changes the sample rate in the middle of a song. That really makes you think.

Might that be down to the adaptive bitrate nature of the underlying HLS protocols Apple and others use I.e. the bitrate changes depends on network conditions?

What Is HLS (HTTP Live Streaming)?

Apple's HTTP Live Streaming (HLS) protocol is the technology used to deliver video to Apple devices like the iPad and iPhone. Here's a primer on what HLS is and how to use it.

www.streamingmedia.com

 

[adias]

Might that be down to the adaptive bitrate nature of the underlying HLS protocols Apple and others use I.e. the bitrate changes depends on network conditions?

What Is HLS (HTTP Live Streaming)?

Apple's HTTP Live Streaming (HLS) protocol is the technology used to deliver video to Apple devices like the iPad and iPhone. Here's a primer on what HLS is and how to use it.

www.streamingmedia.com

It could be and that was under test when I spent weeks escalating the issue with them (this was 6 months ago). In my case it was not a bandwidth/quality-of-service problem. I did not have a sample rate change midstream. I discovered the problem when my DAC displayed the wrong sampling rate for tracks of an album I knew had a different sampling rate. It was always predictable/deterministic, i.e., for the same album, in different days, the various track sampling rates remained consistent day-to-day. On a 12 track album often 3 or 4 tracks were correct and the rest were transcoded to CD. Not that I care that it is CD (CD is great); what I object is transcoding, as transcoding in general degrades the stream.

 

[EddNog]

Now that you mention it: I've also noticed that Apple Music often changes the sample rate in the middle of a song. That really makes you think.

It could be and that was under test when I spent weeks escalating the issue with them (this was 6 months ago). In my case it was not a bandwidth/quality-of-service problem. I did not have a sample rate change midstream. I discovered the problem when my DAC displayed the wrong sampling rate for tracks of an album I knew had a different sampling rate. It was always predictable/deterministic, i.e., for the same album, in different days, the various track sampling rates remained consistent day-to-day. On a 12 track album often 3 or 4 tracks were correct and the rest were transcoded to CD. Not that I care that it is CD (CD is great); what I object is transcoding, as transcoding in general degrades the stream.

I've seen the same where different tracks within the same album are not the same sample rate/bit-depth in Apple Music.

I have never seen the sample rate change mid-track.

-Ed

 

[adias]

Doing an AI search one of the chatbots had a nice summary for WiiM bit-perfect settings:
_______________________________________

WiiM Ultra Bit-Perfect Settings

To achieve bit-perfect playback on the WiiM Ultra, you need to adjust several settings in the WiiM Home app. Here’s a detailed breakdown of the necessary configurations:

SETTING	RECOMMENDED CONFIGURATION
EQ (Equalization)	Disable (toggle off)
Volume Control	Enable Fixed Volume Output
Volume Limit	Set to 100% (default)
SPDIF/Coax Output Resolution	Set to 192 kHz/24-bit and disable Fixed Resolution to avoid resampling
Volume Balance	Keep at 0 (default)
Fade-In & Fade-Out Effects	Disable
Pre-Gain	Keep at 0 dB (default)
Optical/HDMI Audio De-noising	Disable
Per-Source Volume Control	Disable
Volume Normalization on Streaming Services	Disable (for services like TIDAL, Qobuz, etc.)

Steps to Configure Bit-Perfect Playback

1. Open the WiiM Home App: Launch the app on your mobile device.
2. Access Device Settings: Go to the Devices tab and select your WiiM device.
3. Adjust Audio Settings: Follow the recommended configurations listed in the table above.
4. Disable EQ: Ensure that the EQ setting is turned off to maintain the integrity of the audio signal.
5. Check Streaming Services: If using services like TIDAL or Qobuz, make sure volume normalization is disabled to prevent any alterations to the audio stream.

By following these settings, you can ensure that the audio signal is transmitted without any modifications, preserving the original quality of the sound. This setup is particularly important for high-resolution audio formats, allowing you to experience music exactly as it was recorded.
_______________________________________

 

[reniro]

For anyone interested in Apple Music: Keep an eye on the new app Lysoniq.
An Apple Music Client for audiophiles Remote Control Hi-Res Lossless Playback · Developed For iPad, iPhone & Mac

thanks for the link!
The app really works great One step closer!

 

[klaus99]

I have never seen the sample rate change mid-track.

I have now verified this: Apple Music Lossless and active crossfading.
The song starts at 48kHz and about in the last third, the sampling rate changes to 44.1kHz. I hear a dropout and the display in the DAC changes to 44.1kHz. However, the display in Apple Music remains at 48kHz. The song fades into the next one, which has a sampling rate of 44.1kHz. This is then also displayed correctly in Apple Music. This always happens when the next song has a different sampling rate.
A bug or a feature? Very strange.

 

[EddNog]

I have now verified this: Apple Music Lossless and active crossfading.
The song starts at 48kHz and about in the last third, the sampling rate changes to 44.1kHz. I hear a dropout and the display in the DAC changes to 44.1kHz. However, the display in Apple Music remains at 48kHz. The song fades into the next one, which has a sampling rate of 44.1kHz. This is then also displayed correctly in Apple Music. This always happens when the next song has a different sampling rate.
A bug or a feature? Very strange.

That explains it—I never use the crossfade because I figured it would choke on different sample rates. This proves my concern was warranted.

-Ed

 

[Eddie Spaghetti]

The new iPhones (iPhone 17’s and Air) now have Bluetooth 6, which from what I’m reading can support audio up to 32-bit/96kHz. Can any of WiiM's devices (particularly Amp Ultra) take advantage of this? Or is the current batch limited to AAC 256kbps?

If the latter, I predict the next Amp iteration will have Bluetooth 6. Which means I’d have to buy a new #@$&*% iPhone and a new amp, which does not appeal to me at all … or think again about that Cubilux optical adapter thingie that the left and right sides of my brain keep re-enacting Russia-Ukraine over in my head.

 

[EddNog]

The new iPhones (iPhone 17’s and Air) now have Bluetooth 6, which from what I’m reading can support audio up to 32-bit/96kHz. Can any of WiiM's devices (particularly Amp Ultra) take advantage of this? Or is the current batch limited to AAC 256kbps?

If the latter, I predict the next Amp iteration will have Bluetooth 6. Which means I’d have to buy a new #@$&*% iPhone and a new amp, which does not appeal to me at all … or think again about that Cubilux optical adapter thingie that the left and right sides of my brain keep re-enacting Russia-Ukraine over in my head.

This is probably gonna kill ya but I just bought a new streaming amp that has:
AirPlay support
100watts/channel at 8ohms/125watts/channel at 4ohms
DIRAC Live (separate license purchase required)
Subwoofer out with separate adjustable low-pass and high-pass filter options
Supports Qobuz Connect
Supports UPnP (I play my personally library to it from my laptop wirelessly using Audirvāna)
eARC input
Dolby Digital+ decoding and downmixing (takes the LFE channel and blends it into the stereo channels so you get full frequency range with 2.0 or 2.1 setups and don’t miss any bass)
Other stuff that I don’t use (Tidal Connect, Spotify, Amazon Music, Deezer, Bluetooth)

All for under $1,000

Marantz M1

It has replaced this entire chain for me: WiiM Ultra -> miniDSP Flex (digital output) -> RME ADI-2 DAC FS -> Topping B200 monoblocs

Sounds just as good (in fact better when watching movies), and I’ve dramatically reduced clutter. All I’m waiting for is my new sub (Rythmik L12, which is on backorder for a couple more weeks or so). The amplification is a pure digital (PWM) design that utilizes global feedback to ensure neutral response regardless of load (similar to the PFFB circuit for TPE3255-based amps, but this one has no analog stage at all, so NO DAC anywhere in the chain except for the LFE subwoofer output). Soundstage is stunningly deep and tall; image focus is laser sharp

I play Apple Music losslessly to it via ARC from my Apple TV 4K, but my wife is enjoying the convenience of using AirPlay to listen to Apple Music when I’m not around or not using the system.



-Ed

 

[Mr Ee]

It looks so lonely

 

[Burnside]

And I bet it doesn’t support bit perfect casting from the Amazon Music app

 

[Erebus]

Marantz M1

These are very expensive here in Australia (AUD$1600), so I'm curious how the M1 would be a better option than say the WiiM Amp Ultra which is $700 cheaper here. What benefit do you get for nearly double the price?

 

[Wiimer]

These are very expensive here in Australia (AUD$1600), so I'm curious how the M1 would be a better option than say the WiiM Amp Ultra which is $700 cheaper here. What benefit do you get for nearly double the price?

As far as I know, there are no particular advantages - only that AirPlay 2 is available

 

[slartibartfast]

These are very expensive here in Australia (AUD$1600), so I'm curious how the M1 would be a better option than say the WiiM Amp Ultra which is $700 cheaper here. What benefit do you get for nearly double the price?

This I suppose
"Dolby Digital+ decoding and downmixing (takes the LFE channel and blends it into the stereo channels so you get full frequency range with 2.0 or 2.1 setups and don’t miss any bass)"
100W into 8 Ohms, 125W into 4 Ohms doesn't sound great. It doesn't like low impedance speakers.