Bluetooth Stutter

[Shozzer]

Morning All,

New WiiM Pro owner as of last week. Works flawlessly over Wi-Fi when connected to my Denon amplifier via Line Out and also Optical Out (Coax is a no go as my current connectors don't fit onto the WiiM!) but when connecting to Bluetooth devices - Dali Katch, Sony Headphones and a cheap headband (for use when going to sleep - not a good look!) the sound stutters badly. Have other users had similar problems and were they able to overcome them? The experience varies. Sometimes when the stutter starts, pausing a few seconds allows the sound to buffer and then normal playback is possible. Sometimes it then becomes necessary to repeat the process if the stutter starts again.

The problem occurs whether streaming from LMS or Qobuz via WiiM and happens irrespective of Wi-Fi or Ethernet connection. A device reset did partly improve the situation but essentially Bluetooth is unusable which is a shame as that was the main reason for getting the WiiM. I have submitted a ticket to WiiM but wondered if others had similar experiences they could share.

Thanks for reading.

Steve

 

[Szczypior]

Are you in an apartment building? Are you or neighbors using older WiFi (2.4 GHz)?

Bluetooth uses UHF radio waves in the ISM bands, from 2.402 GHz to 2.48 GHz. So, WiFi, microwaves and other emitters can interfere with Bluetooth since it's a very low power emitter intended to go up to 10 metres / 30 feet and anything with higher power will stomp on the Bluetooth signal.

Workaround for bad RF (radio frequency) is often to use wired connections which isn't always idea. Or you could move

I can tell right away that you didn't bother to go through 9 pages of this thread and just wanted to post something..

 

[hoohoohoo]

I can tell right away that you didn't bother to go through 9 pages of this thread and just wanted to post something..

Now 10 pages...lol. So, he seems to have some Bluetooth frame buffering issues. Getting two hardware devices with differing buffering strategies to align can be challenging for a developer. Similarly, there could be some hardware erroring that's occurring which needs hands-on both devices to verify. Jitter and frame drops are pretty uncommon in most hardware because there are only a handful of Bluetooth chipsets and there are industry standardization tests required for the BT certification.

 

[Szczypior]

Just go through the thread first and then voice your opinion instead of jumping with your conclusions. You unfortunately are not a I-know-everything person.

 

[hoohoohoo]

Just go through the thread first and then voice your opinion instead of jumping with your conclusions. You unfortunately are not a I-know-everything person.

Thanks for the etiquette lessons.

 

[Brantome]

Just go through the thread first and then voice your opinion instead of jumping with your conclusions. You unfortunately are not a I-know-everything person.

As per the group rules, please keep comments courteous and friendly. Thanks

 

[Szczypior]

So a little update on my end. I just had a chance to test my A800 headset with quite new Yamaha R-N800A and they are having the same issue.

It seems like the headset works fine with mobile phone and for example LG OLED TV (C3 model if I remember correctly), but not with the true audio devices....

 

[onix]

As of 2024-05-14 , last several updates did not work in my case. Root-cause seems so native in deep where FW cannot reach.

 

[Shozzer]

Sadly, I think you are correct. There has been no news from Wiim on this matter for some time. I have no idea if the new products announced recently will work any better, but I will be unwilling to spend good money to try. It is a great pity as the inclusion of LMS is a real plus for me.

It would be helpful if WiiM could actually say if matters can be resolved satisfactorily or not. That would allow us to make decisions about the future, as well as alerting unsuspecting purchasers to the problem.

Steve

 

[castalla]

Sadly, I think you are correct. There has been no news from Wiim on this matter for some time. I have no idea if the new products announced recently will work any better, but I will be unwilling to spend good money to try. It is a great pity as the inclusion of LMS is a real plus for me.

It would be helpful if WiiM could actually say if matters can be resolved satisfactorily or not. That would allow us to make decisions about the future, as well as alerting unsuspecting purchasers to the problem.

Steve

I gave up with the Pro and repurposed with speakers. Wiim mini Bluetooth is flawless and works with LMS upnpbridge plugin

 

[Shozzer]

Well, there is one very disappointed user here. Having purchased two devices which offered BT connectivity (Pro and Amp) and having reported on numerous occasions regarding issues with playback, there appears now to be a deafening silence from WiiM with regard to a solution.

What concerns me the most is not the lack of a solution (although that would be greatly appreciated!) but rather the lack of communication regarding the problem. Yes, there have been some FW upgrades to try to address the situation, but none of these have actually resolved the issues being experienced and there are no indications that there is any work taking place to try to resolve the problem. One is left with the impression that awkward customers will float away and the issue fall quietly by the wayside.

What would be really helpful though is a firm, honest answer as to whether the problem can actually be fixed or whether the hardware just cannot deliver the functions advertised. If the latter, then customers should be notified, despite the pain of having to do so. It is not fair that customers should purchase equipment only to find that it cannot deliver.

Come on WiiM! Please let us know if this issue will ever likely be resolved, or whether we should be looking to dispose of the equipment we have purchased and look for alternative solutions.

Steve

 

[Szczypior]

Another month passed and yet WiiM team remains silent about the issues? I returned the Technics headphones as they did not work with the Yamaha R-N800A as well, looking for new headset for silent listening. Looking at something higher in price, but if there is the same issue with WiiM, then there is no point spending extra money..

 

[Szczypior]

Just got my Sony XM5 Today, possibly not the best choice as I wanted to go with Yamaha YH-L700A but the headband on it is not suitable for smaller heads, which I unfortunately have, but overall I hope they are decent.

Anyway, want to update everyone, that as Sony XM5 pretty much matches the tech of Technics EAH-A800 in terms of supported wireless protocols - XM5 works flawlessly with Wiim. I am also pretty sure they will work with my fathers Yamaha RN-800A as well without any issues as his B&W Px7 S2 do.

It makes me think that indeed, this Bluetooth issue unfortunately cannot be solved on Wiims end and is likely to be caused by the end point device and hardware design/components used. As seen on other forums, Technics just disregarded some complaints about this issue stating it's not on their end which I find to be untrue at this point.

So all in all, after many months, the issue was solved in my case by replacing the headphones.

 

[Shozzer]

Just got my Sony XM5 Today, possibly not the best choice as I wanted to go with Yamaha YH-L700A but the headband on it is not suitable for smaller heads, which I unfortunately have, but overall I hope they are decent.

Anyway, want to update everyone, that as Sony XM5 pretty much matches the tech of Technics EAH-A800 in terms of supported wireless protocols - XM5 works flawlessly with Wiim. I am also pretty sure they will work with my fathers Yamaha RN-800A as well without any issues as his B&W Px7 S2 do.

It makes me think that indeed, this Bluetooth issue unfortunately cannot be solved on Wiims end and is likely to be caused by the end point device and hardware design/components used. As seen on other forums, Technics just disregarded some complaints about this issue stating it's not on their end which I find to be untrue at this point.

So all in all, after many months, the issue was solved in my case by replacing the headphones.

Sounds promising. Which WiiM devices are you connecting to?

Steve

 

[Szczypior]

Sounds promising. Which WiiM devices are you connecting to?

Steve

Wiim Pro Plus is the only one I have serving as a stream feeder to my Yamaha A-S2200. I'm thinking of reverting back signal from A-S2200 to Wiim so I can listen my turntable and CDs wirelessly in the evenings when my 3yo daughter is asleep.

 

[Shozzer]

That's interesting, thanks. The gamble would be if the Sonys work with a Pro or Amp. If I could guarantee that they would I might be prepared to try, but I don't feel like investing any more in WiiM, particularly when they seen to have lost all interest in the issue. If they can't cure it then they should just say.

Very frustrating, and poor customer service, frankly.

Steve

Wiim Pro Plus is the only one I have serving as a stream feeder to my Yamaha A-S2200. I'm thinking of reverting back signal from A-S2200 to Wiim so I can listen my turntable and CDs wirelessly in the evenings when my 3yo daughter is asleep.

 

[dragonfly]

I have a WiiM Mini and Bluetooth out has been stuttering like crazy when connecting to JBL Encore speakers. I have two JBL Encore speakers and both of them stutter with the Bluetooth out from the WiiM mini. There is no stuttering when connecting from my phone. So the issue does seem to be on the WiiM end. I tried changing the location of the streamer to various positions. I tried different sources (Spotify, Amazon Prime Music). No difference due to sources.

There is no stuttering when connecting via aux. But aux is not ideal since I’m connecting two speakers via TWS. And volume control works better via direct Bluetooth connectivity. My return window expires in two days. Wondering whether to return the WiiM Mini.

 

[Shozzer]

I have a WiiM Mini and Bluetooth out has been stuttering like crazy when connecting to JBL Encore speakers. I have two JBL Encore speakers and both of them stutter with the Bluetooth out from the WiiM mini. There is no stuttering when connecting from my phone. So the issue does seem to be on the WiiM end. I tried changing the location of the streamer to various positions. I tried different sources (Spotify, Amazon Prime Music). No difference due to sources.

There is no stuttering when connecting via aux. But aux is not ideal since I’m connecting two speakers via TWS. And volume control works better via direct Bluetooth connectivity. My return window expires in two days. Wondering whether to return the WiiM Mini.

After my experience with a Pro and Amp, I suggest you return. BT stutter is a known issue that, sadly, has never been satisfactorily resolved in WiiM devices. I have been very disappointed as I had hoped that the integration with LMS would make the perfect BT combination.

Steve

 

[wiimamp user]

I have a WiiM Mini and Bluetooth out has been stuttering like crazy when connecting to JBL Encore speakers. I have two JBL Encore speakers and both of them stutter with the Bluetooth out from the WiiM mini. There is no stuttering when connecting from my phone. So the issue does seem to be on the WiiM end. I tried changing the location of the streamer to various positions. I tried different sources (Spotify, Amazon Prime Music). No difference due to sources.

There is no stuttering when connecting via aux. But aux is not ideal since I’m connecting two speakers via TWS. And volume control works better via direct Bluetooth connectivity. My return window expires in two days. Wondering whether to return the WiiM Mini.

What BT version the speakers have ?
Do you have you the latest software version?

 

[dragonfly]

What BT version the speakers have ?
Do you have you the latest software version?

I have the latest firmware on both WiiM Mini (4.6.626453). And also the latest firmware on JBL Encores (1.29.0).

 

[dragonfly]

Well, there is one very disappointed user here. Having purchased two devices which offered BT connectivity (Pro and Amp) and having reported on numerous occasions regarding issues with playback, there appears now to be a deafening silence from WiiM with regard to a solution.

What concerns me the most is not the lack of a solution (although that would be greatly appreciated!) but rather the lack of communication regarding the problem. Yes, there have been some FW upgrades to try to address the situation, but none of these have actually resolved the issues being experienced and there are no indications that there is any work taking place to try to resolve the problem. One is left with the impression that awkward customers will float away and the issue fall quietly by the wayside.

What would be really helpful though is a firm, honest answer as to whether the problem can actually be fixed or whether the hardware just cannot deliver the functions advertised. If the latter, then customers should be notified, despite the pain of having to do so. It is not fair that customers should purchase equipment only to find that it cannot deliver.

Come on WiiM! Please let us know if this issue will ever likely be resolved, or whether we should be looking to dispose of the equipment we have purchased and look for alternative solutions.

Steve

I am actually quite surprised by this. Bluetooth is not a new technology. Tons of devices offer Bluetooth playback and acceptable Bluetooth connectivity to headphones and speakers is often just assumed to be a given. I cannot fathom how a dedicated music streamer cannot get this right. It’s like all their R&D and focus only went into auxiliary and optical connections, which are the ones most audiophiles prefer. But I’m sure many users are looking to these streamers for the convenience factor. For many users Bluetooth connection is good enough. Just surprised looking at the various comments on this thread how they are just letting this slide.

On my end, it’s not like I’m connecting to a random Bluetooth speaker. I’m connecting to JBL speakers. JBL is a major player in the Bluetooth market segment. If the issue was on JBL’s end, and they weren’t using proper standards, tons of reviews would have mentioned it.